It is really funny -- and the reason I don't tag people...

It is bad enough that I post cat pictures, writing updates and whines about hubby and I not being able to get jobs in the same place...

I don't have a cat so I have to settle for dog pictures. Wah! I don't fit in with the cool kids!

He forgot to include the disturbing phenomenon of grown female academics making those sad little stick-thin, plate-eyed digital avatars for themselves.

Those things are so weak they barely make the MySpace cut; seeing them on academic blogs is just pathetic.

Oooh, congrats on the baby girl! How exciting!

I had a similar experience in terms of realizing how being unhappy with my job made me unhappy with so many other things. It is amazing how much perspective you gain on a job after you leave it!

As for blogging - would love to see you blog more, about whatever you find interesting. (Though I suspect you will have much less time come summer! ;-D) But it is interesting to think about the different role it plays in our lives at different times.

So It's interesting reading your post and AAYOR's post because I actually started a blog this year to feel more a part of the community. I've been commenting and such for 3+ years but really only blogging for 2mos. And I'm not sure my heart's in it. Except that every so often I feel the desire to respond extensively to a post. I don't know if I'll keep it up, but I know I still feel part of the community just through comments. I think if you have an established personality and presence you can continue to participate at different levels.

Glad to hear from you!

I am in the midst of returning to being a vegetarian. Last year, I gave up all pork products. Now, I have given up all beef and limited chicken and seafood. I am feeling better because of it. I haven't blogged much about the change, but maybe I should.

How exciting! You need burpcloths and diapers and bottles and oooh! Yay!

Wow!!! Congrats on the impending adoption---how exciting! (and scary, yes, too, but it's a "good" scary, I'm sure!)

Oh, yay for the prospect of adoption. But I understand the freaking-out feeling of "I'm not ready yet!"

Still, I'm with you on the virtues of contentment. I am supremely content with my relatively small but very collegial situation.

WOW!!!! I can't believe that it may happen so soon!!!!! I am so fired up. I was thinking the other day about calling you re: your birthday in October and what you're/we're planning. Maybe meeting in St. Thomas is out (one thought I had) but if it means that I get to meet the little chica, I could settle for a fiesta in the midwest!!!!

You sound good. Really good. I'm curious about the fam stuff, though. (I facebooked your bro the other day and was tempted to email him, though I'm not sure how often he logs in. Don't tell him this, but he looks so OLD!!! Maybe its because I remember him as a lanky late adolescent... or maybe he just smoked one too many....)

I always admire people who adopt! Congrats!

My aunt was adopted from Korea in 1963. While her and my grandparents have had a serious falling out, I think she was always grateful that they took her out of a bad situation. She was a street kid in Seoul, and her mother (or someone else) had just dropped her off at a Christian mission. She was only 3 at the time.

Best of luck with this huge life change!

congrats on the new baby cheeky coming into your life, that is so exciting!!

i so know what you are thinking! even though he is not here, every day i think, this is so surreal, is it really happening?

i know you will be a great mommy, and you will love it. :)

Congrats on the baby and on the all round contentedness.

Congrats on two important happenings: contentment and a cheeky chica! Very cool, on both counts. Job stuff is amazingly important in establishing self content. I'm not there yet, so I laud you!

What exciting news about the adoption. Congrats!

congratulations on the baby news! that's fantastic. and if you ever need tips, pointers, advice, or links re: the veg thing, you know where to find me. ;)

Very glad you're back. Hope all goes well with the baby...and a daughter at that!

Wow. I have such mixed feelings about your news. You are so bitchy that I cannot imagine you would be a very loving parent. Profs don't have to be substitute parents but they do have to have some mentoring abilities and you have shown absolutely none in your rants against your students. I have wondered about the deal with your dog so it makes sense that you have a dog and not a kid. Please really get your act together before you make this decision. You can't change kids like you did universities. What you get is what you live with, love, nurture (if you have that in you which I doubt), support forever even if she is not the picture perfect baby/child/teen/young adult you think you deserve.

oh my good hell. what a pompous dick!! as i continued to read this post, my eyes just kept widening ever more with each word. i canNOT believe he went ahead and said that it was YOUR duty to help HIM!

you exercise fantastic restraint. your responses remained professional and polite throughout. you have my admiration! please do keep us informed -- i am completely riveted and can't wait to see how this thing goes!

god. what a g.d. asshole!!

Wow. All I can say is...wow.

I'm with the History Enthusiast. Just wow.

I've always been surprised at the attitudes of some of my fellow students. I really appreciated your responses to the jerk student. After one of my classes lost a top notch teacher because she didn't want to deal with being told how she should run her class (and rightfully so-she could get a job anywhere), I've tried to make sure to say something to the offensive person or whoever they have complained to in the department. I grew up around academia, and it was firmly reinforced by my parents that you treat all people in your academic environment with the utmost respect. Beyond the whole general respect one other thing, you never know what connections you'll need later and what the offense of disrespect will cost you.

Simply amazing.... it never ceases to amaze me how people don't think that basic courtesy and civility apply to interactions over the internets.

Good for you, Cheeky. Few people would have the balls and the sangfroid to put Mr. JerkOff in his place.

Um.... what?

Ok, I can't stop thinking about this. Its giving me a stomachache. I may need a vicodin.

I really hope that he doesn't come to your office to fight with you....

This is just so surprising . . . but then again, it isn't. It seems as if every semester or every year, students get a little more demanding, expecting good service . . because, after all, they (or their parents) are paying for it.

I really appreciate your responses. Very professional and very right. While Jerkoff doesn't realize it yet, he has so very much to learn. Maybe you have started that process for him.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!!

OK, I am so sick and tired of this college being a service and students are the customer crap.

I would not let him my class becuase of his arrogance. What does this little SOB think that kind of behavior is going to get him when he goes out into the work world???

Keep us posted.

Oh my f-ing god, is that unbelievable! What a complete idiot. I can totally imagine having a student like that here at my U. I got an email from a student begging to force-add my class after the deadline. He wasn't obnoxious, but I ignored it because it's just too late now. I cannot even imagine what "JerkOff" is thinking. Good lord...

Holy. Crap. That is just UNBELIEVABLE.

seriously, what the fuck is wrong with this kid?!?! i hope someday he asks for a letter of rec from one of these profs. that would be so fun.

I'll echo Professor A (and the History Enthusiast): wow.

Holy crap! I can totally believe the email he sent, and his replies. What I cannot believe is that he has enough free time to spend it tracking down profs so he can puff up his chest and keep asserting his essential, uncritical correctness. Has he never heard that cliche - you get more bees with honey, blah blah? The way a person delivers a message is so crucial. That's why advertising is or isn't successful, duh. That's why drs have to get trained in how to tell someone they've been diagnosed with cancer. That's why Bush & his friends have collective talking points. Duh. I can't believe he would argue that delivery doesn't matter, and I can't believe he would suggest that it is a prof's job to monitor their wait list and inform him (a stranger) of openings.

I got e-mails like this at least once a semester from students. Usually they were enrolled in my class and then lied on course evaluations about a litany of wrongs I committed at the end of the semester.

While you may see this as perhaps extreme, does your University have some sort of honor code that has been violated? If so, turn him in. Seriously. A letter from a disciplinary committee explaining how his behavior is inappropriate might do wonders.

The again, he might just decide to get revenge. Cuz you know he's probably nuts, don't you? Every single student who's taken this attitude with me has always revealed some lack of attachment to reality...

Good luck in the fight for dignity, respect, and common courtesy,

You totally rock. Not only did you answer his question, but you are actually trying to teach him how to function like a human. I LOVED your responses. BRILLIANT! Nice work.

I imagine he wants to talk with you to try to convince you that he's write. Lost cause, dude. He should check himself by sharing this exchange with one of his friends or something so one of his peers can clue him into how patient you're actually being with him and then he can lay off...

To me, the best part is that young Mr. Jerkoff is attempting to lecture a professor of [your discipline] ... about ... [social interaction]. Clearly he has a desperate need to take your class.

Since he has already couched your relationship in terms of customer and service provider, perhaps he will be receptive to the concept of tipping.

Woots and cheers are heard across the country for your noble efforts, Cheeky. Keep up the good work: bitchslapping respect into one student at a time!

I can't stand the next generation...seriously. I don't know a single person who, 15 years ago, would have even thought to do something like that, much less cop the attitude of entitlement you were subjected to.

Then again, we didn't have email and it would have required too much energy to actually go to the professor's office during his/her office hours. :)

I bet one of his parents told him to send you the initial email.

I join in the praise of your poise and righteous persistence. I wonder, would it be in your best interest to have your Chair present if/when the student meets with you? Having some administrative-type present might decrease the chances of this asshat taking his inappropriate indignation to the "higher-ups."

Not that you should fear that happening. It's just that it might be nice to +see+ him thwarted.

Keep on!
(from the former lucyrain)

Suh-weet! I can't WAIT to see how this guy gets along in the business world! I can't believe he doesn't understand that YOU'RE the one in power, and that if he isn't nice to you, you aren't going to tell him whether or not there's an opening in your class. Good lord. This guy has a lot to learn about social interaction, regardless of the sphere.

OMG! What a f-ing pompous ASSHOLE!!!!!

Wow. That kid has some serious issues.

I'm trying to figure out how this asshat made it to his junior year without so much as one functioning stem cell.

Wow, I really hope his boss kicks him in the nads when he gets his first job. Unfortunately, people like that never think anything is their fault and they are very unlikely to change.

On behalf of all reasonably functioning everywhere, thank you for at least attempting to put that guy in his place.

K.

I am *so* annoyed by students who treat us like customer service representatives. Reminds of a time early in my teaching career when a student, not as rude as JackOFF, came to my office hours during the penultimate week of the quarter to ask me how he, after ten weeks of jacking-off, could "do something extra" to improve his grade. And I quote: "I really need to 4.0 this class." As if! I should've told me, "get out ASAP" b/c you're wasting my time. But, of course, I worry about student complaints because I work for a University that often "has the back" of students more than it should. Oh well. Love the post -- and your blog.

Great responses! You have to wonder what gave him such an extreme and dysfunctional sense of his own importance. He won't get it until he gets fired for this attitude some time.

I have been teaching at the University level for 10 years and I am continually appalled by this incoming generation of students. I ignore emails like this and plead ignorance unless the student comes to my scheduled office hours - email is a fringe benefit for students and if it's whiney it goes into the delete file. If he or she wants special consideration, they need to show me respect right off the top.

Next goal: teaching the little savages to open doors for professors and TAs who are laden down with course materials. It's a serious reality that many of these 'speshul generation' knobs haven't been taught the most basic of manners. Woe to their future employers.

Great responses, Cheeky!

What is lost to this student is that he is asking for a favor!?! Geez.

Hope the in-person meeting goes well.

Let the mud slinging begin because I have a completely different take on this. My daughter is a 2nd year at a competitive university. She was unable to get in one class she wanted this semester but said she would contact the prof to see if she would let her in. I said contact her during office hours? She said no, she would send her an e-mail I said not a good idea, go see her in person. This smart, polite (if I do say so myself...) kid looked genuinely puzzled. She is very used to emailing assignments and receiving feedback on assignments by email. Her professors communicate by e-mail, she and her friends communicate by email, heck she and I communicate by e-mail. Upshot, she went to the professor who allowed her to sit in until there is a slot; she just found out there is a slot and now she's in the class and is as happy as a clam. You can't blame this generation for using email, even mass emails, to communicate. Jerkoff was a bit arrogant but so are most college students. They are used to high school teachers being more responsive and invested in them and so they make assumptions that are naive and come across as arrogant. Do any of you really KNOW kids this age?

I'm afraid I experience this sort of behavior several times a year. And I'm afraid I disagree a bit with the sense of the commentators here. This student is rude, no doubt about that. Your responses were more than appropriate.

But at the moment this student doesn't appreciate the lesson because he's also desperate. At least that's the only reason I can muster to explain the last-minute blanket email, the lack of direction in his course selection, and the "directive" to reply to him about his needs response "instead of wasting time emailing friends"--which to me reads that he's retaliating for the embarrassment he feels for being, to his mind, mocked in a group reply ("I don't know who was supposed to get that message"; "not making fun of me").

What this student is attempting to do is find some leverage ("You think its inappropriate to approach a professor by their first name and I think it is inappropriate not to reply to students quickly when they need to get into a class"). And he's flunking badly ("I maybe didn't ask the best way...).

I certainly agree that it isn't the professor's "duty" to submit to his rudeness. Yet who else in this situation but the professor has the power to override class size and let students in? Students such as this one are always told "your professors will know" or told to "ask the professor" if problems arise. I offer students of this sort an explanation (in person) of how the university operates--even including a flow chart sometimes and explaining (from university policies on my desk) how much professors do. I ask who his/her adviser is and drop that person a note. I also tell students that deadlines (the "asap" here) don't work in emails (although at my university it's the official means of communication) because you cannot ensure that addressees read their email on your timetable.

When students of this sort do see me, I explain in neutral terms that emails of this sort don't work (in this case that "asap" is ambiguous; that a group email discourages timely answers at the beginning of a semester; that [as you point out] email messages may be read the wrong way). I offer that the telephone or office hour visits work much better (and faster) in achieving results. Then (with the student code of conduct on the desk) I discuss expected behavior. I wouldn't use the term "duty," of course, but duty implies deference which also implies respect. And clearly this student doesn't get that!

I'm afraid in this instance, though, your position isn't clear due to another's misunderstood response to this student.

Dear Cheekyprof,
"WHERE I BITCH SLAP A STUDENT"?
Having a bad day? I am not sure why you are so proud of yourself? I see nothing wrong with the first email. Kind of a novel way of covering as many bases as he could. As opposed to putting hat in hand and going around trying to find all these teachers to beg for a signature. And I am sure just trying to find teachers would be a problem. As to "ASAP", when did that become a dirty word? And he did end with a "thank you". I think the first teacher was out of line to tease him publicly. Then you to pick him apart after he raised to the bait. Why were you quiet the first time? Dropping and Adding is not a win-win for the student. And it can be a very negative scenario. Teachers like to have small classes, and it can be extra work on their part to catch a student up. So hind sight being 20/20, the next time you might consider a different response. the first would be to ignore, which is what you started out to do. Or respond to only him that you do or do not have an opening.

Greg

Greg:


From: JerkOff

To: A List of 15 Employers

My name is Joe Blow. If any of you has a job in CHEMICAL ENGINEERING, MECHANICAL ENGINEERING, CIVIL ENGINEERING, or ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING let me know ASAP. Thanks.


Or:


From: JerkOff

To: A List of 15 Local Business Owners

My name is Joe Blow. If any of you has any FURNITURE, CLOTHING, HOUSEWARES or GIFT CERTIFICATES you want to donate for a raffle, let me know ASAP. Thanks.



Point being, if you want to request something special from someone, it behooves you to approach that person individually and with courtesy, not to send a blanket email without blandishments. As you recognize, admitting a student over the institutionally specified course capacity represents extra work for the professor and potentially a decrease in the overall course quality (I speak as one who teaches English Composition with a course cap of 35, and yes, I've admitted up to 42 and then felt the size truly affected my ability to teach effectively). If you're going to ask for something, why not ask in the way most likely to get a positive response? Props to Cheeky Prof for giving the student feedback he could utilize (though it doesn't look as though he's utilizing it).

hmmm...

I think we see how some of these students get created...

*bump*

Prof. Cheeky --

I'm curious: Has there been any followup contact by this student with you or Professor A?

In reading the comments on this thread, I was struck by how many times folks said things along the lines of "we professors should not be treated like customer service reps"; I agree that professors shouldn't be poorly treated, but am led to ask: Should we treat C.S. reps as many of us believe this student treated Professors Cheeky, A, et al.?

YEA!!! I'm glad you are happy at your new place.

My CC is rewarding and challenging in the same ways as your new uni... It helps me to remember that, 'there is a reason they are here' -- and if you can figure out that reason, it is easier to understand their challenges.

It's SO great to read this. (What you say about the students where you are rings so true to me, too.) So glad you've found a better fit!

So glad to hear that things are better for you at your new job! How awful that your last one had you considering leaving your chosen field. It's good to know that there are places where students don't feel like they are entitled to a good grade just for showing up. I think any reasonable and sane person would have been frustrated and disheartened at your old place.

It's good to hear that it seems like it's a good fit.

Hooray! What a great way to start a new job. I'm so glad you found them, and they found you.

How sweet (in more ways than one)!

That's awesome! I almost bought one for myself the other day just because I used to love them as a child.

i remember these, how fun!!

That is SOOO freaky, because I was just thinking about those earlier this evening! I wish someone would leave ME one of those!

So, he didn't send you a follow-up e-mail or anything?

I'd be tempted to delay bringing it to him... and when he picks it up, I'd explain the situaiton to him and let it remain unsaid that your delivery delay wasn't accidental.

Uhhh, that's awkward. Ick.

What an ass!

I like PhilosopherP's idea. The jerk didn't send a follow-up email or try to call, or really give you sufficient time to respond--especially given the holiday.

I'd delay giving it to him as long as possible. Make him sweat. Then when you do hand it over, do so graciously, so he might see what an ass he has been.

If it wouldn't get you in too much trouble, I also would let him know that his approach to collegiality doesn't quite work for you, so you'd prefer he not contact you on any other matters.

If he needs additional assistance, tough shit. Get it elsewhere.

I would retract my permission to hand it over after his behavior. You are under no obligation to cooperate with his doltishness.

After all, what's the old proverb? His lack of preparation is not your emergency.

In my doctoral program, we are specifically told that if we cannot get the study from x source by y date, go elsewhere, but *above all*, do not pester the source.

just my two cents.

stick to your guns, Professor! :-)

I'm with desertdemocrat! Take the moral high ground and maybe he'll learn how to interact with professors and colleagues.

P.S. I'm glad you changed back to this template! It is freakin' awesome!

Perhaps you can call his dept chair and let the chair know what transpired. Because really, the dept should be concerned if their students are behaving like that. Is that how they're teaching them to interact with others?

Whoa, that is ballsy! I'd be tempted to say something to his chair.

I hate to say it, but give him the scale, apologize for being delayed by the conference, express interest in the study, and CC it to the chair. The chair doesn't think less of you, the chair just doesn't want to be bothered because you won't shield him/her from this bullshit. Get tenure. Be principled later.

Act all apologetic and give him the scale, but not before miscalibrating it in a subtle and hard-to-detect way so that, after however many long hours using it, all his results are useless.

I would give the student the scale, but only if he apologized first.

He irritated you and caused you minor embarrassment. He should be made to realize he can't just say and do anything to get his way.....

Ah, yes. Because tattling gets you everywhere.

Or just pisses off a person, one of the two.

Am I the only one to also see some weirdness (on top of the obvious on behalf of the student) in the dept chair actually giving this complaint email a second thought?
When in doubt, chairs should first and foremost support their faculty against such idiocy from outside (and inside actually, but that is more political...). No?

ridiculous, the whole situation from top to bottom.

Hooray!

Good to see you back, and glad to hear things are going so well.

Hooray for a happy home, a great university and a friendly atmosphere. AssHat University's stupid decision was a good thing, indeed!

Welcome back, and congratulations on all the good news. Your concluding sentence makes me want to shout "Hooray!"

Welcome back! Happiness is definitely underrated, isn't it?

i'm so happy you're back to shitting! and yay for all the good things!!

Yay! You're back!

I am so glad things are going well!!!!

As soon as you said "Asshat University" I figured out that you meant Liberty University. Sorry, I've "outed" you.

Glad you are happy. Me too!

Yay! Welcome back! Glad to hear things are much improved! Also, I'm diggin the new look! But I am biased (grew up with bull terriers) :)

I'm so happy for you! That's great that you are loving your new home and job. It's also nice to see you back in the blogosphere again.

Yay! I'm glad you're back.

You've been missed

Hooray, you're back! SO glad to hear everything is going well. As for your last comment - I know JUST how you feel. ;-)

Thanks for coming back, I missed you when you were gone

What everybody else said!

Glad to see you on your feet and moving forward!

Wow, welcome back! Good to hear that the change in your situation turned out to be a positive one! Can't wait to hear more!

I just wanted to de-lurk to congratulate you! Although my institution doesn't have the same problems as yours, I wanna get the fuck out of here and go somewhere where I'm happy (and where I am actually valued).

Glad you're back - and very glad for you!

YEA!!!!

I'm glad you are happy, settled in and doing well.

So glad you're back and in and happy in your new place.

Congratulations! I'm so happy that you've landed on your feet. (Not at all surprised, but happy.) YAY for happiness!

Yay! Welcome back! I'm glad you've decided to continue blogging. I enjoy reading your blog!

Can you get me a job at your New U? Sounds great! Congratulations!

Actually, would you be able to do a general post on how one could find out (in advance of signing a contract) whether a school will be good or not? How is it that you picked a good one this time? :)

So glad to see you're back and even happier to hear things are going well. Looking forward to some pictures of the new house and the pups enjoying the yard. Ok, especially the pups :)

Oh, I'm with you! I'm not moving to something permanent, of course, but at least we should be in that city for a while. It is much nicer to find out about my new institution than to do work! (I can take ice skating lessons at my new school!)

Though I also have to say that I would happily move to your new state, too. ;-)

Sounds like things are moving along.

Real estate is aggravating right now. We've had our house on the market for a couple of months and besides nosy people....nothing. I keep telling myself that we bought this house and it wasn't as nice then.

Hang in there. It's a great house and someone will come along.

adoption?!? John and I are trying to decide if we are going to "try" before the wedding. I think we might.

Boy, do you sound happy!

Hooray! I was secretly hoping you'd go for School A based on your description of the two. Here's hoping the relocation goes as smoothly as possible...

yay! Congratulations!

Wonderful news!!!! CONGRATS!

Excellent, Cheeks. Just excellent.

That'll learn those wankers you work with now!

Woo hoo! I am so glad that this turned out so well for you. Congratulations!

Congratulations! How wonderful for you! (And how delightful you have so many places pursuing you!)

Yay!!! Congratulations.

Yay! I'm so happy for you! :)

WOOHOO!!!! Cheers to you!!!!

:D
Yay!!!!!!

Congrats! It must be a relief to have made the decision.

:-)

That's great! I'm very excited for you!

Congratulations. It sounded like School A, but for the romantic college town imaginings, was exactly right for you.

Congratulations! I'm so happy for you! Yay for Zoloft!

Congratulations! That's AWESOME!

WOOHOO! Congratulations. Great news!

congratulations! and good luck with the move and your new start :)

What wonderful news! I'm so glad that there was such an unexpectedly happy outcome to the ugly tenure battle last semester. How vindicating, and how fabulous for you!

YAAAAAAAAAY! I'm so, so happy for you.

CONGRATULATIONS! How exciting.

Ok, so I forgot to tell you this... Spouse's best friend lives REALLY CLOSE to where you are moving so we will TOTALLY VISIT YOU THERE!

And even though you won't technically be close to me, you'll be closer than you are now! Yay!

Congratulations!! So happy for you!!

Congratulations!!!! So happy for you . . . and I wish you all the best for the upcoming move. This outcome is inspiring, actually.

CONGRATS!!! and sorry for the lateness. but still, happyness!!

Congratulations!

Congratulations!

congrats, Cheeky! love your blog. do you still do the tuesday "WTF" thing? loved it last time i saw it...

I didn't know that you had returned! Wow! Congratulations!

WOOHOO!!! And don't worry, I am sure you will have everything ready!

As usual, I'm way late to the party, but congratulations on netting two offers! Here's hoping everything comes together for you guy and you end up somewhere you love.

I just accepted an offer with a five-day turnaround myself. Naturally, the day after I accepted it, I got offered an interview at another school. Fortunately, School B didn't particularly interest me, so no big loss.

(used to be LowLevelRebel)...with only the information above, and having read what you've posted about the trials and tribulations here from previous school, I lean towards A. I don't know if that helps, or if it's even an educated enough suggestion, because what's been posted here is entirely devoid of details, as it should be.

BUT, what I do think is - more $ is good. lower cost of living is good. connections for the mr is very good, because then you're both solid and you're not putting yourself into a stressful situation right off the bat. I think that if school b has undertones/feelings/inklings of your most recent, if it were me, i'd run the other way. Once bitten, right? I think you need to follow your gut on this one. especially if both your guts are feeling the same way.

I agree with Colleen, but I am also currently living in a small town teaching at a medium mostly liberal arts U! I'd take a major metropolitan area any day! (7 years of small town living... and counting).

It sounds like School A is what you want! Also... I have a question: Are either or both of the places hiring you with tenure??

I'd incline towards A, too. The money at the small private LA college depends a lot on the financial situation of the school. My public SLAC instituted salary freezes while I was there, which was Not Good. My current private SLAC gives great raises, but it's a generally flush institution. Probably the fact that A has a higher salary to start with than B suggests that the money will continue to be better there, but it depends on the school. (I've never been anywhere with a faculty union.) Also, the small department/school/building a new program can be wonderful, when it goes well, and if you like being really instrumental in the running of a place. If you'd rather do your job and go home at the end of the day, it's not the place to be. You seem very aware of this, but B's situation could be WONDERFUL, or it could SUCK - it's hard to tell at this point.

I've lived in that region (generally speaking) and have a fair amt of experience with the SLAC thing, so if you want to share more details and hear what I have to say (which is probably nothing helpful!), feel free to e-mail me! newkidonthehallway at yahoo dot com.

Not knowing anything about either school, it sounds like YOU are more excited about School A. Reading your description of their offer, I didn't hear any big negatives...versus most of what you said about School B was negative (not as much money, not as large a department, etc.)

It sounds to my ear like your heart has already made this decision, you just haven't voiced it yet.

I'm with the folks above-- it sounds to me like you're leaning to school A.

I'm in the midwest & know some schools here pretty well; can you share some details with me? :)

School A sounds as though it has more for both of you than the others.

Yeah, A...A hip college town seems nice now, maybe, but in a few years it probably won't have nearly the same draw. Maybe you value having a big city nearby so you can indulge your need for Stuff and Culture.

As one who dragged a spouse along and lived with his having a crappy job for 3 years, the happiness and job prospects of The Other are important (which I know you know, of course).

Based on the descriptions here and your experiences at your current school (I'm a relatively new reader, but I've perused your archives), I"m with everyone else here--school A sounds like the one.

agreeing with everyone, it sounds that school A is the best and what you are leaning towards, even though commuting is annoying, still sounds best. good luck!

I'm in agreement with everyone here. School A offers better money and more opportunities for you both. I think the stress of Mr C's fewer opportunities job search combined with the stress of moving and starting at a new place would blunt any good feelings you had about school B, even if it was a great place.

More money, more choices, less stress=school A, which you sound more psyched about too.

Good luck with your decision! Decisions like that are always so difficult to make, as it seems like it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

That's tough! Good luck with the decision. I am just SO delighted that you have this decision - a much better place to be than where you were a couple months ago.

I see you leaning toward School A but town B. Now, I don't know which cool college town you mean, but I'm in an okay college town and I have to tell you, knowing that I'm going to run into my students and profs (I'm a grad student) everywhere I go feels a bit limiting, as if I'm always "on" and don't have other aspects to my life. If you're trying to convince yourself out of School B, that might help. You might get really sick of being Dr. Cheeky Prof instead of just plain cheeky. Or maybe that's just me.

Great work with getting two offers! Awesome. Congrats!

I have to say, I probably wouldn't take a job that pays $8,000 less than what I was making at my previous job, especially if my spouse was going to have to look for a job. It seems risky to me. Of course, I can't say too much. I did leave a good paying job at a nonprofit to take a teaching fellowship five years ago -- that was a paycut of $30k and my husband didn't have a job lined up when we made that decision.

The really interesting thing is that School B "hinted" at the Chair's position in four to five years. Are you interested in something like that?

A sounds the best option to me -- a heavier service requirement and more new preps at a time when you're probably going to try and go up for tenure in a few years (not seven!) means a harder row to hoe. A would probably give you more opportunities to get ready for an early, successful tenure review.

I grew up in the Midwest as a faculty brat at a Big Ten U. Lots of small town living isn't so bad when there's a campus in town -- usually good entertainment comes through and there are often other cultural perks. I'm sure you know all of that, though.

On the commute front, check with someone local, i nthe know, about weather and the roads. You might be a hardy type, but if the roads suck, you don't want to be struggling with long commutes on bad routes.

Congratulations! Even though this is difficult, it's good to have choices... and professional affirmation!

Congratulations!

Congratulations!! Difficult decisions, but ditto what B* said.

Congratulations! I'm so glad to hear things are on the upswing for you!

Excellent!! Congratulations to you!

Congratulations!

Wonderful! Congratulations!

Congrats! This is the best dilemma to have, definitely.

congrats!!

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!

You are my hero. And you're making me want to apply for jobs next year.

YEA! You make it seem possible!

Congratulations!

Excellent! Congratulations! But, at the same time, I know what you mean about the pressure of choosing correctly (or, at least, not incorrectly). Good luck with the choosing!

How amazing to go off to an interview knowing that you already have one offer -- congratulations! And good luck!

Well that's great! Having the offer from the first place should help you with the second place. Good luck, and congrats!

Congrats on the offer and interview, and sorry to hear about Mr. Cheeky's grandma. Safe travels!

Congrats on the job offer! :)

Hugs to you and Mr. Cheeky.

YAY job offer!!! That's fantastic!
(sorry to hear about Mr. Cheeky's grandmother.)

congrats to you!!! you rock!

and sorry for the grandmother, it is always hard....

Very sorry to hear about Grandma Cheeky...

but absolutely delighted to hear your emplyment news!

Congratulations!

That's so EXCELLENT! CONGRATULATIONS!!

Yay for the job offer! And sympathy to Mr. Cheeky and his family. Good luck with the next interview.

My sympathies on the passing of Mr. Cheeky's grandmother. My congratulations on the offer and my good wishes for the next interview!

As a longtime silent reader of your blog (first time commenting), I just wanted to add my congratulations on all those great prospects coming your way (you certainly deserve it after all the nonsense you've been through!)and my sincere sympathies regarding Mr. Cheeky's grandmother.

Congrats on the offer and sympathies about Mr. Cheeky's grandmother.

Congrats on the offer. Sorry to hear about Mr. Cheeky's grandma.

No, I can't believe that you were in a good mood after all of that! lmao

I want to hear more, esp about potential colleagues (since that matters a LOT). And also about the "issues."

But, it is AWESOME to be the by far first choice, babe! I'm so excited for you!!

And, I bet you can squeeze a little more out of that Dean, especially if they want you THAT badly.

Finally, do you want to live there? I mean REALLY live there?

hooray that they liked you so much! even if it's not your #1 job choice, it's not to have options.

Sounds like everything went really well!! Cheers to you!!!!

Wow- it sounds like it went GREAT! I think the department where my husband & I BOTH interviewed (for 2 different jobs) is meeting today. I hope they have good things to say about us! Sounds like you're a shoe-in for this one! That's awesome- I'm very happy for you after all the crap you've dealt with.

After all the disaster of the trip there, you certainly deserved the good karma of their positive response. I agree with you about the mildly creepy bits of really fawning over you, but I suspect that might be more a relic of someone's previously jerking them around (whether a candidate or a faculty member who decided to start up something funny) as well as, of course, them really liking you!

Keeping fingers crossed!

Wow, you are *such* a rockstar! Congratulations on such a successful trip. I can't wait to hear the outcome...

My first interview, which was an early interview (i.e. in early December) was somewhat like yours in that the trip down there was hell, but the interview went okay. The flight from Denver to the interview city was cancelled, so instead of having an 8:00am Monday interview, I got to interview city at about 12:30pm on Monday. And Denver was the hub of the shitty airline that I was unfortunate enough to use (and which I've vowed never, *NEVER* to use again).

And I had a roaring head cold during my night in Denver. Oh, and did I mention that, after three hours of sleep, and a Monday flight from Denver to interview city that arrived late, I went straight to the Dean's office?

That was a blast....

Sounds good to me.

Glad to hear it went well; sorry to hear your fly was undone, lol!

Just realized you're back - and glad to hear all the positive news. (Maybe the fly was a positive influence?)

Thinking positive thoughts for you...

Of course you're much more engaging and funny than the other candidates! I hope you get offered at least one of these jobs. Current Institution is making a big mistake.

PS - Maybe leaving your fly down is secret communication code for "utter self-confidence."

PPS - Thanks for the awful "Facts of Life" photo. I'm still cringing.

Congrats! If you could score a position at U.C. Santa Barbara, that's probably the most beautiful school location. I'm not biased, though.

What are you drinking tonight?

WOOHOO!

So fired up to hear about C as well. I know someone else who applied for that job and he hasn't heard anything yet. You ROCK, babe!

Great news. Hopefully you'll be in a position to do some real negotiating and then get to make a choice that's best for you.

In the meantime, knock their socks off!

w00t! This is so exciting!

Very cool! Plus I love the subtitle! I almost forgot about that movie!!!!

Congrats to you! Definitely go for the whole bottle. :)

Fantastic, babe. Keep on rockin' on.

Congrats, and break a leg!

congrats!!

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Congrats! I'm glad to hear things are going so well for you!

I just officially accepted my first tenure track position a few days ago, and I'm insanely pumped about it. Now I just have to put the finishing touches on this damn dissertation. ;)

If you can score a position at UCSB, you'd better be ready to live in grad student housing for a while or be damned wealthy. Prices have slowed, but they are still frakkin' high. You're talking close to $300k for a double-wide (although the nice mobile home park next to the bike path to the U requires that you buy the piece of land on which the home sits). Don't knoe what rentals are like these days, but I think Oldest Friend's mom rents out a one bedroom / one bath plus teeny kitchenette and very large living/dining area MiL apartment for about $1000. We lived there from 96-98, and our rent for 1100 sqf 2/2 apartment was $1600.

I'm just sayin'.

Shit? Did I remember to say congratulations??? Because I really meant to!

Many congrats!

YAY! HOORAY! You're gonna rock the interview!

oh, and maybe the new place will hire you WITH TENURE!!!

woohoo!!

Fabulous news! I love to hear about triumphant exits from shitty situations, and it's sounding like you're moving in that direction.

Yaaaaayyy!

I'm glad you hear you have an interview. They'll love you!

I'm so glad things are going well! :)

Yippee!!! Sending some fabulous interview mojo your way, not that you will need any, of course. :)

Woohoo! That is so awesome!!!!

I have *a lot* to catch up on with your blog, but glad that it went well!

YAY!!!!!

Yay! So glad things are getting better.

Fabulous news. I am so pleased for you and am impressed by your ability to move on from what has clearly been an unpleasant place. I know that could not have been an easy decision, but more power to you!

Now, go knock their socks off!

EXCELLENT!! Good for you - you rock!!

Wonderful, wonderful news! I am so happy for you!

Fingers crossed! So happy for you!

You will wow them at the on-campus interview, I know. Have a great time and rock their world!

Yay! Go knock 'em dead!

Great news! Good luck with the campus interviews.

You will do well and you will be fabulous!!!!!!

Kick some butt!!!!

Good luck!!

No worries, love. You can't help but be fabulous.

Good luck!

I'm sure you'll do great! Best of luck!

you will be awesome!

Good luck! I'm sure you'll be fabulous.

You did well, and you were FABULOUS! (Congrats!

So, SO glad to hear that things are working out for the best. Good luck with the job search!

Cheeky, I've missed you and am relieved to hear that you are doing well and are looking elsewhere. Somewhere people are going to adore you, and you deserve it! Hang in there--we are all rooting for you here in the blogosphere.

Well, that's good news. Clearly, your university isn't a fit for you either, so this is probably a blessing in disguise. Good luck with being on the market, and congrats on already getting a happy phone call!

i'm glad that you are happy with the outcome, even if it wasn't what you wanted at first. best of luck in your new search! :)

glad to hear the good! and good luck with the job search, seems it has started of wonderfully! those jerks don't know what they're missing.

You go, Cheeky! It sounds like you are in a remarkably good place after all the crap that's come down.

I don't blame you for deciding to leave. As you know, I lost my job at my college for "bullshit reasons." I wouldn't go back if the administration stood in the public square and publicly apologized!

I think it's great that you are looking for places that welcome the wonderful and talented person you are! Best of luck in your search!

Glad you are back! Keep us posted!!!!

I am so glad you are receiving validation and getting a phone interview! YAY!

It sounds like you've made peace with a shitty situation, so thank goodness for that. Good luck with the job search. I have no doubt you're right in choosing to LEAVE a place where you aren't welcome: shake the dust from your shoes, girlfriend.

I'm so glad to hear things are getting better for you!

Oh, it's so nice to read that positives are coming out of all of this for you. Good luck with the phone interview!!!

Any chance of some of those helpful colleagues being references? Congrats on the phone interview! I'm so glad you're back.

Welcome back, and glad to hear that things are looking up! Good luck with the phone interview!

I am so happy that things are turning out better than you could have possibly imagined six months ago. Add my well wishes to the pot for your upcoming phone interview.

I'm glad that your colleagues came to your defense and that things are looking up. Good luck with the phone interview.

It must be very validating to have colleagues "on your side," and also to have that phone interview! You deserve better, so good luck!

Oh, good for you! I'm so glad that this is turning out in a positive fashion. At least, for now. You know, as positive as a tenure denial can be... In any case, I'm sure you're going to end up somewhere you can be much, much happier!

Cheeky, that's awesome! and what ppb said, too!

This is just. so. wrong.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having to go through this, deal with the fallout, and play the waiting game. Not all tenure decisions are rational and solely based on evidence. The VP may not have been hewing closely to the evidence you presented. One thing to assess is whether strict procedures have been followed in your case. Any glitches? That would be worthy of an appeal. Another thing to do, if you're interested, would be to actually read the files of those with similar publication profiles. The CV alone cannot answer all the questions about why a candidate gets a yes or no. What else has the candidate done to make the case for themselves? Did you have probationary reviews? What did your colleagues say, formally, in those reviews? What did your colleagues say in their assessment of your tenure file? The other issue is...do you get to see the file before it goes to a tenure & promotion committee? Which parts are confidential regardless? There may be something in the file that you cannot see...that would shed light on this.... I really wish you the best of luck with this.

There's part of me wondering if they didn't hold your sabbatical against you--e.g., we gave her time to push out more publications than these others. But...please...as overly engaged points out, none of this shit is rational, from hiring to denials to promotions.

There is this *great* scene from the play Brighton Beach Memoirs by Neil Simon. Blythe Danner played the main character's mother, brilliantly, in the movie. This is an impoverished Jewish immigrant family; the father, who has been working two jobs, suffers a heart attack, at the end of the Depression in New York. They have been struggling and struggling, one thing after another. In the penultimate scene, they are at the bottom financially, when they get a letter saying that the father's family has escaped from Poland and are on their way to New York. The boy, worried about money, says something like: "What are we going to do? The boat arrives next Thursday."

The mother stops for a moment, feels the fear, and then shakes it off, saying: "I can't worry about boats that haven't arrived yet" and goes back to cleaning.

Don't worry about boats that arrived yet, Cheeky. I do not know what the future holds for you, but there will be good things, and there will be bad things, and you have the brains, talent, and support to get through all of it. You are hardy: this is not going to wreck you.

I have another thing to say after reading through all of the fears thoroughly. Honey, don't worry about me, I adapt well to change, I can work in other fields if need be, I have often contemplated moves to exotic out of the way colder than cold climates in the past. It'll all be fine eventually. It's like people say, "there is no good time to have a child". There is no good time in your life to have so many things in a state of disarray but in the end for a great majority of people things work out and they will for us too. I don't want to leave for stupid reasons like being comfortable and simple fear of being called out for having been in my profession for so long and not being licensed. You know that I am much more comfortable with uncertainty and disorganization then you are and I go with the flow. I'll go with you anywhere we need to.

Being out on the job market right now with no idea whether I'll get an offer or where I might end up, I can relate to at least a few of these worries.

My wife is always going to be the family's primary income-earner, so I feel a little guilty uprooting her from her job if I get a position, but I guess it's just the nature of academics.

Meanwhile, I'm already stressed about tenure, and I haven't been offered a tenure track job yet.

I'll just echo what some others have said: This is often NOT a rational process; I've seen (up close) more than one case where the committee/administrator simply wanted to "make an example" out of someone to "prove" they mean business. It's bullshit.

You need to figure out if an appeal is worth your time and emotional/mental energy-- a good friend of mine appealed her decision, and it was a really traumatic process. Unless you have a strong case, I wouldn't do it. I'd spend my time (a) getting off any and all committees; (b) publishing; and (c) looking for whatever job you want next. That sounds very harsh, I know, but these jokers don't deserve you, Cheeky. You're destined for better things.

I launched myself onto the academic job market last year and again this year, and it was a pretty disheartening experience. I can't imagine having to do it again several years down the road. You have my greatest sympathies.

Anyway, I gave up halfway through this year's job season in favor of a university staff job. I get paid as much--or better--than I would as an assistant prof, I have the same fabulous university health benefits as faculty, and I spend every day thinking about pedagogy in my new role as a faculty support person. Yet I don't have to grade papers or stay up until midnight prepping for lectures. The pressure to publish is--poof!--gone. I still have full privileges at the university library, so I can wallow in knowledge all I wish. And as a tech person instead of a humanities person, I suddenly have access to all kinds of resources I didn't have before.

At first I was worried I was making the wrong decision because I've always considered myself an academic and especially a teacher, but I am so very happy in my new position. It's been shocking how easy the transition was for me, though I know it's not so easy for everyone.

Best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do. We've got your back!

Oh Cheeky-

Maybe you should try a staff job... AlthoughI personally hate mine. I'm thinking of becoming a lecturer when I graduate, MAYBE.

I can only imagine how you feel, and I think you should be looking at all your options... What you want to do is really out there for you, maybe just not there.

Keep your chin up sweetie, things are only going to get better and with that awesome many of yours... dang girl! just remember how lucky you are. :)

I'm amazed at how well you're holding up - an event like this would keep me in bed for quite a long time. Many people go on to lead relatively normal lives after a stint in the academy - keep your chin up. Most in the private sector don't even know what tenure is; this decision won't matter much in their eyes.

Shit, I miss you. I wish I could take you out for drinks and a good long bitch session.

Don't kill me for asking, but would you ever consider teaching at a private high school? I know we've discussed teenagers before, but I've done some volunteer teaching at a Catholic* school recently (trying to get into an MA/secondary credential program) and the main thing I noticed is that the kids a. show up and b. do their homework. Might be a nice change. (In contrast, last Thursday while I was at a public high school in Oakland, some kids came to school at lunchtime with guns and we were in lockdown for two hours. Damn kids made me late for my real job.) I guess this is only a suggestion if you want to derail your career and switch to the bus or whatever metaphor works here.

Anyway. I hope ... I hope you find what you need.

Big hug.
Jen

*Sounds crazy, but it's not a bad gig. English class is English class, and it's okay to teach stuff like "churched them with Jesus/bled them with guns" from Maya Angelou.

Hi Cheeky,

sorry to hear the news, but at least you're smart enough to not stop eating...

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2006/12/18/daily54.html?f=et54&hbx=e_du

I went through the process last year, and my promotion was grudging and unenthusiastic: I was made to feel as if I had barely squeeked by through some miracle of luck. It made me so sad and so ashamed and so... tired. In the mean-time, I had applied to professional school (to be a student) not really thinking that I'd go but feeling better about the idea that I wouldn't have to hang around if denied promotion. I thought about spending more years in my department, feeling ambivalent about my research, my colleagues, my teaching... downright hating the university and my department chair and the dean... pumping out grants and papers and more papers and probably more rounds on the job market trying to go someplace where I felt more appreciated...and realized that I had to break my academia habit.



Although I was really scared -- about selling my house, moving, my relationship, and the costs of school -- the very act of making a decision made me feel better than I had felt in years (An aside: Does it make me a bad person that I still cackle when I think about my meeting with the Chair?). It has actually been refreshing to learn about something completely new, rather than eating and sleeping and breathing the same subject I was studying for so many years. I feel creative again.



I was a very dedicated academic for most of my career. But you know what? I do not miss it at all! I was so used to making all the compromises that academics make that it had never really occurred to me to think of them as compromises until now. There are so many interesting things to do!



The hardest part was letting go of the idea that I was somehow a failure as a person for entertaining other options. But once I did, the pressure to publish lifted, the department politics went away... I felt as if a thousand pound weight was lifted off my shoulders. I'm now well on my way to a career that I think I'm going to love that will pay double what I made as a professor and give me the career and geographic flexibility I've always wanted.



Anyway, back to your needs: people get denied tenure all the time. Very good, hard-working people. None of those people have curled up and died even though the world felt like it was ending at the time. They have all found other academic jobs or other careers that worked better for them. Rare words of wisdom from my father during the whole horrible tenure process: Everyone has something bad happen in his/her career at one point or another. You can recover from anything. Lincoln failed at almost everything he tried before becoming president.



I don't even know you at all, but I can make this prediction with 100% confidence: You will land on your feet, and you will find something good to do that you will like and that will make you happy.

Hehe. :)

I've been having dreams related to being on the job market for the past couple of months. I was sure all my academic stress dreams would end when I took my last final as an undergrad. Then when I finished my MA. Then when I finished my last class as a Ph.D. student. Then when I finished comps.

They never end, do they?

I hope you laughed as I just did. A much-needed laugh.

Awww, Cheeky. This whole thing so sucks. (Though I was amused at your conversation - go Mr. Cheeky!)

I like that Mr. Cheeky.

oh no... I am so so sorry.

Oh, what crap. I'm so sorry to hear this.

(o)

I'm so sorry- that really sucks.

I'm very sorry.

So, so sorry. This sucks so much.

I am so sorry.

sucky, sucky, sucky!! A pox on the VP!

So sorry to hear this, and sending good thoughts your way.

So sorry to hear that. I know you thought as much but I'm sorry anyway.
Hang in there.

oh no! i'm sorry, that's terrible. but, looking on the bright side, maybe this will lead to bigger and better things? maybe?

Oh, Cheeky! That's just awful!

I'm so sorry.
Your union president sucks, by the way.

That sucks!!! Hugs to you!!!

That sucks big time! It's just awful--so sorry.

completely sucks.

What a bunch of fuckrags.

So sorry! Glad you know now, but it's awful nonetheless.

Damn.

Feel free to contact me at my first name dot last name at gmail dot com. I'm not your union grievance officer, but I am grievance trained, and there might be some other things, and ... damn. I want to be supportive in a concrete way.

you know... that's just icky. how is it that these things happen around the holidays as well. damn. miss you. ps... your babies are so cute!

We love you, Cheeky. And we just know that something good is going to come of this.

That sucks so completely. At least the chair of the committee had the guts to do the right thing in letting you know promptly about this. If there's anything I can do, any of us can do, let us know.

I'm so sorry, Cheeky. Sending you good vibes and hugs . . . .

Oh, that so sucks. I can't believe it! Good luck to you in figuring out what to do next, and please take care of yourself and hug your doggies!

Damn, Cheeky, I'm so sorry. This truly doesn't make sense.

And people say the tenure system is supposed to prevent politically motivated firings?

I'm so sorry. That's just so wrong. *HUGS*

I'm so sorry, Cheeky. Best of luck as you move ahead!

Terrible news. I'm so sorry. Phase 2 may be much, much better, but it's crappy to have to move into it in this way.

I'm sorry, Cheeky.

Ok, I wanna know: why couldn't he tell you that? Weenie.

Crap. Sorry is wasn't what you had hoped for, even if it wasn't entirely unexpected. Wonder if there is any way to challenge that union contract.

Oh, shit. I'm so, so sorry.

What a bunch of crap.

Phase 2 WILL be better.

That. Sucks.

I'm so sorry.

(o)

I'm so sorry...

(((o)))

So sorry, Cheeky. If you're certain your department is behind you (and sometimes it's hard to know this for sure), don't just lie down and take it. If you want to stay where you are, keep fighting. And call the AAUP.

So sorry! That truly sucks. I know it'll work out right eventually! Phase 2 is always better than Phase 1.

Fuck those people. Fuck them. I am thinking of you Cheeky...

Man, I'm so sorry, cheeky

Delurking to say damn. I'm sorry.

D***. My gut agrees with your gut, and I hope our guts are wrong here.

holding my breath for you! the academic "process" can be so frustrating.

I'm so sorry to hear you are going through all this! Good luck- my thoughts are with you.

Man, this sucks. I'm so, so sorry. Any word on when the president might give the official word?

Yikes...what a nightmare.

Sheesh.

(Nightmare is putting is lightly.)

Oh jeez. This must be so frustrating... I hope you find out either way as soon as possible. Waiting is always the worst!

Hang in Cheeky. I've got my fingers crossed for you.

I'm sorry to hear that there's no good news and no real news in sight anytime soon. It doesn't sound too promising, you're right. Hang onto the plan of the extra year if you're given the short stick and make sure to get all those colleagues who're offering support to come up with useful references and links for a forthcoming job search, should it be necessary.

Good luck in your meeting!

Good luck!! Oh, I hope it goes well.

Good luck!!!!

Fingers crossed! I'll be thinking of you.

Break a leg!

You'll have lots of positive internet vibes headed your way today! Good luck!

Good luck! {{{fingers crossed}}}

Sending vibes of strength and fortitude your way...

Good luck!!

Best of luck to you!!

Although you've probably already *had* your mtg, I'm crossing my fingers retroactively.

Hope meeting went very well - sorry to be late sending a message; just discovered you were back.

So how did it go?

This seems so awful and unfair that I don't even know what to say.

I'm sending you a hug.

Wow. This is so horrible. But I am impressed that you're going to meet with the VP. If nothing else, just to learn WHY.

Good luck.

!!!!!

(sorry, but words escape me...)

I'm speechless, and so very very sorry to hear about this.

I am so sorry. I don't know what else to say.

I am so sorry.

OMG, that sucks. Just so wrong.

This is all just so rotten (and is bringing back so many horrible feelings from my own tenure situation last year); there are no words for how crappy it all is.

One suggestion: If possible, have your chair go with you to the meeting with the VP. I learned that it can be very productive to have a third person who is both witness and advocate in these meetings.

I'm so sorry, Cheeky. I echno What Now's advice . . . having a third person in the room could be very productive for you.

Gutsy thing to call the VP, and it strikes me as a good thing that the VP is meeting with you.

I know you'll be thinking about the meeting for the next several days, so from an outsider's perspective, let me suggest what the VP may want to hear from you:

1. If there are any factual errors in the committee's statement, consider pointing them out first. I suggest doing this before getting to the comparison issue, because any factual errors speak to the general credibility of the committee deliberations and the care with which they made decisions.

2. If there are clear T&P guidelines at your institution, but the committee statement did not refer to those guidelines, point that out (e.g., "I'm surprised and disappointed that the committee didn't talk about the specific criteria in the T&P guidelines"). Again, this is less a matter of final disposition than credibility. It's easier for the VP to overrule the committee if he can point to procedural problems, and mismatch between discussion and T&P guidelines would be an easy basis for disagreeing.

3. Definitely raise the double-standard issue, but I'm not sure how to do so. Maybe as puzzle? "I don't understand why the committee used a double-standard for me. I know, for example, that of the following people who earned tenure last year (listing them), only (names here) had more publications than I did, ..." Maybe as just fact? Definitely find out from your chair how the VP responds to presentations.

And good luck!

Sherman's given some good advice. I would also sit down with the union people at some point and go over the clauses with them. That's an incredibly poorly written contract -- your negotiating team was taken for a ride (not surprising given what I know of faculty unions).

But particularly, for yourself, write out points that you want to cover. If the VP won't meet with you, submit these as a letter to him. See if the dean will join you in the meeting, if you think that will help.

Oh Cheeky, I'm so sorry.That's outrageous. Good luck with your meeting with the VP - sending you good thoughts!

Oh Cheeky, this seems so wrong and so unfair. I admire your determination to speak with the VP and to do what you can to find out what's going on. I echo Sherman's and Arnacatt's advice and think it's important to have an advocate and witness at the meeting.

I'm sending positive thoughts your way.

Just. Damn!

That just plain blows!!! Hugs to you!!!

Holy hell! Hoping for the best possible outcome for you!

This just sucks. I am so very sorry. Sending hugs and good wishes your way.

So, SO wrong. Gah. I hope this works out well for you somehow.

Glad you're back, sorry about the circumstances. Thinking good thoughts for you here.

i hope it all works out for you! academic life can be so unfair sometimes..

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. Good luck with the meeting. And keep the blanket - you deserve to be toasty at night.

This so sucks, Cheeky. I wish there was something I could do for you. Sadly, I'm just a low man on the academia totem pole... at a different school. Keep pushing, though. I'm sure you'll make a dent in the VP.

Oh. My. God. I am so sorry, Cheeky.

How awful! Hope the meeting went well today. Sending positive thoughts your way.

Egad...what a nightmare. Outside of academia, you'd have grounds for a lawsuit, I'm sure.

You know, at times like this, I'm a bit glad to be a lowly adjunct. Without hope for tenure, you don't, you know, hope for tenure.

Good luck!

Ugh, Cheeky, I'm so sorry to hear this news. I don't have any really grounded advice, since in a couple of years I'll be going up for tenure and worrying about the same things. Does your university have an appeals process?

I think that if your department is 100% behind you, then it's worth fighting it. I know someone who was denied 3 year reappointment, but in her case, her chair was the one backstabbing her (although the other half of her dept was really pulling for her). If your dept still values you and wants you and thinks this is crap, then you should go all the way, and you should feel vindicated if you get tenure after all.

Whatever you decide, I know this whole situation just sucks, and I really hope you can just find some peace in the end.

I just want to say welcome back! No advice, sorry.

Oh my god, what a nightmare. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm terrified of. I think what you do next has to depend on what you want. Do you want to stay where you are? Do you like everything else about your department? What would it be like for you if you fought and won and stayed? I think you have an extremely strong case that would be worth fighting, but you have to want to.

But ugh, so sorry this is happening.

Oh no! What a truly sucky situation. Is there another administrative-type person you could talk to in the interim, an ombudsperson or something, that could help you figure out your options? or maybe a lawyer? or your chair? Maybe if you had some idea of your options at this point, then you'd be more prepared to handle whatever happens in 15 days.

I am speechless over the horribleness of this, and wish you all the best.

Oh no, that's horrible.

Ok I have some advice. A different institution tried to do that to me. They considered my case, and rejected me, and that was despite the more-than-full support of my chair. I found out later that:

a) there'd been a typo in my documentation so they'd seen fewer publications than I'd actually listed,
b) they didn't have the context they needed to make the decision
c) the dean had been bad-mouthing me without him knowing anything about me, and he bad-mouthed me without even telling me in advance, which he should have, so I had no opportunity to counteract his malicious lies, and
d) the committee were getting tighter and raising the bar higher than they had in the past, just when I was trying to jump over it.

My advice:

• Find out what is really going on. (Like the a)-d) I found out as listed above.) This "not focused enough"? I don't buy it. Either your documentation is somehow misrepresenting you (unlikely) or they are using this as an excuse to deny you tenure. Why else would they be suspicious of too many publications and then Are they being sexist? Are they being "oh bother we can't afford too many profs getting tenure"? Do they have something against you personally? Do they have something against you that isn't personal, like they don't really want the dept to expand or they want to spit in the eye of your chair, or some other reason I can't guess?

• Do you know someone who is on the committee? Who could let you know what is really going on? I don't know if that's ethical in your neck of the woods - can you instead find someone who often serves on these sorts of committees so that they can tell you in general what's going on? They must be getting a negative view of you from somewhere - where? Find out!
  


• 
  Can you find someone (trusted, preferably at your institution) who has a lot of experience of assessing applications for tenure who could have a look at the sort of evidence you've presented to see whether there is some kind of way you've presented it that doesn't come over well?
  
• 
  Gather data. Who got turned down for tenure? Who got awarded tenure? Would they share any data about their tenure applications with you? Find all the objective evidence you can about how your performance measures up. Subjective is no good.
  
• 
  Do not regard the support of your chair as useful. Lack of support ain't good, but chair support won't get you any further than a shoulder to cry on. There are lots of academics who applied for tenure and had full enthusiastic support from their chairs. I suppose what I'm saying is not to rely on the support from the chair because that ain't gonna be enough.
  


• 
  Go and get support from women-in-academic institutions. They can offer support and fighting tips.
  If you want this tenure, you need to fight.
  

Oh, and sympathies over the "but I had lots of teaching to do for the first two years because I was helping setting up new programs". They got me with that too.

Welcome back, Cheeky! Sorry to hear that it's under such awful circumstances, though.

I wish I had advice to offer, but the best I can do is assure you that you're in my thoughts. Best of luck!

I'm sorry. I have no actual advice, but that totally sucks. I hope the fact that your department is behind you helps somewhat.

How upsetting! I don't know what to say, except I want you to know that we're behind you and rooting for you.

For me, a frustrating part would be how vague everything is. Doesn't meet WHICH requirements? How? In what way? The vagueness and unclear expectations of some P&T requirements scream subjectivity, exclusivity, etc.

It's good to hear from you. It sucks that it's under these conditions.

First, welcome back. You've been missed.

Second, umm, gahhhhhH!!!!!!!! That's awful. And terrifying. And enough to make one go down a whole bottle of vodka in one sitting.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. No advice but I hope the eventual outcome is one that meets your needs.

No advice here ... but I'm thinking of you and hoping somehow it all works out ...

PS: I just cited one of those publications you mentioned. Because I could :) (Now let's just hope my manuscript gets accepted -- hoping to send it out tomorrow. Interestingly enough to the same journal)

Well, you already know that I'm just sick over this.

I wonder to what extent the VP reviews materials other than the committee's recommendation letter? If the VP (or his/her staff) review the whole packet, including other letters, etc., there may be a good chance that s/he would go against the committee.

I may have told you this, but @ my last Dept, the last THREE people who went up for tenure were DENIED. But, all three ended up tenured after appealing. And all three were pub/lack of grant funding related.

Keep me posted.

Oh, and even though the pkg I sent was your (perpetually late) birthday gift, I hope that it cheered you up a little, too!

I am glad you are back, but what you are going through really blows. Hope it works out.

Glad to see you back, but boo to the committee denying you tenure. I wish I had advice, but not being in academia, I can't offer any.

Keep us updated and good luck!

That sounds like a raw deal: nuts! The best path depends on whether your collective bargaining agreement allows tenure to come from a grievance. Ours doesn't (though the university frequently does a do-over in such cases), but yours might.

It sounds like you've been caught in the Tenured Faculty Want To Be Ambitious trap. It's ugly. Often in these cases, the average committee member's productivity was far lower at the same stage of their career, so they don't know what it really takes to have what they think is enough, but they want to Prove They're Tough.

If I were on your campus, I'd probably suggest to the VP that you've worked your tail off and turning you down on tenure will send a bunch of folks to print up a bunch of cv's to escape the place.

Oh, Cheeky, this so sucks! I'm thrilled to see you back, but not under these circumstances. I thought Lossie's advice sounded great, and like others have said, if you think this job is worth keeping, you have good grounds for fighting. Sending you good thoughts and best wishes.

Thrilled to see you back, but very sorry to hear about your situation. I have no advice, just wanted to say that you're in my thoughts! Hope things work out somehow.

That. Sucks.

I'm glad to see you back, but I'm sorry you're going through such an awful situation.

Thank goodness you have a union. Use it. Plus all the other good advice. Nice to see you back, anyway. Keep us posted!

I'm so sorry you're going through this, Cheeks.

But I am glad to see you back.

That's complete and utter crap. If your union and your department is behind you, I would suggest preparing to file a grievance. You might be surprised with the VP, though (especially if someone useful on your side of the case can get to him before the deadline) -- we had an instance where a VP came back in and awarded tenure over the objections of our FPC (and good on him for that!). It only works if he or she realizes that the committee's been wandering in the wilderness, though.

Have you considered blackmail?

Oh no! I can't believe they would do something like that! Although I'm a minor leaguer in academia myself, I know how much work it is to do the publish/teach/service component. I remember when one of my bosses went up for tenure at my last job and how hard she was laboring uphill (the dean really disliked her)... I'm so sorry this is happening. Please keep us updated. I'll be sending good thoughts your way.

Wow. What a bunch of hot crap to be going through.

Give 'em hell, and keep us posted.

C'mon, Cheeky... why DON'T you just buy them? You know you wanna! Maybe you can start a paper writing business while on your sabbatical.

YAY for your sabbatical in the fall! That rocks! :)

wow, your mom sounds.... fun.

Oh. My. God. That is freakin' hysterical.
You know, I have never been able to explain what I do for a living. My family thinks I am a glorified high school teacher. Ack!

Oh, holy cow ...

My mom wants to come out in August "when I'm not working" (yeah, and when is that?).

Your mom actually talks to you about your work, and she actually knows you write papers & do research????

That's several steps ahead of my folks, who (like Indygal's family) think I'm some sort of schoolteacher, but in college.

sigh...

My folks know what I do, but they have a hard time understanding why I can't "just submit a resume" to the schools where I want to teach.

Yes, terminaldegree, my parents, too!

It usually goes something like this:

Mother: "You have a Ph.D. Surely someone will want to hire you in one of those places."

Me: "I'd like to think so, but I have to wait for someone to die, resign, or retire. And then I and another 400 people will apply."

Mother: "Well, I just don't understand why you won't send a resume. That's what people do. They need teachers everywhere. And you should think about networking if you want to move up."

Same here! My parents are constantly going, "You should quit your job and move back to NJ. You can live with us until you find a job. Just send your resume in and I'm sure you'll find something."

*sigh*

Thankfully, my parents don't really get it, but they take my word for it that I can't do that!

And congrats on the sabbatical!

You could just buy a paper, you know. Oy....are you sure your mom hasn't been advising the college president in Delaware that just got caught plagiarizing for the second time?

I have had even worse conversations with my mother, sad to say.

I don't know how many times I've had to explain what my MAJOR is to her, let alone ANY kind of aspect to university ways.

When I told her in passing conversation, "And then after I graduate, I hope to go to Wayne for grad school ..." She cut me off and exclaimed, "GRAD SCHOOL?? Why on EARTH would you want to go to GRAD SCHOOL?? Why would ANYONE want to go to grad school? Why can't you just get a degree and get a normal job like normal people?!?"

Uh ... when have I ever been normal?

LOL. This is why I only discuss things like sex, religion and politics with my parents ;-)

I just got tickets for a lecture that will take place in May here in Oxford, so I went to the lecture location's website to look at the other presentations that have taken place this year. Here is one that took place in December:

Christmas Lecture – Are you trying to kill me?

I kid you not.

I'd like to direct you to my school's advertisement on their homepage for the upcoming student leadership confrence:

http://www.umflint.edu/leadership/

I about shit my pants when I saw that apostrophe, and notified the school a few weeks ago that they should really change it if they want to be taken seriously. Notice it still hasn't been changed.

I'd like to vote for which one is more ridiculous, but they're all out of control!

I got one of these as a phone call. Someone from Athletic Advising called my on the afternoon of the LAST day of add-drop, asking me if I could add a student to a full section of a class. The student couldn't add any of the OPEN sections because the student either had other classes or athletic practice or "couldn't learn from that instructor."

Why were they contacting me on the last day of add-drop? Because some computer glitch made it so that the student's prereq wasn't showing up in the system (student did have prereq, it just wasn't showing up in the system) and they waited for THAT to be fixed before asking me to overload a full section. Instead of contacting us during regular registration in NOVEMBER to manually override the prereq until the registrar fixed the records.

Athletic Advising claimed that these were "special circumstances" and that I should have let the student in.

They are all over the line! I've been asking for one of those phones with caller ID (we have 'em at my institution, but admin assistants get them), so that when Athletics Advising calls (and they call all the time), I can not answer the phone. ;-)

I got a bunch of these this semester - apparently classes are just full to bursting, because I was besieged with requests (for the first time). My seminar is now overenrolled because of seniors begging to get in "b/c I need to course to graduate in the spring." Given the weirdness of our registration system, however, I know that they did *not* put said class as a first choice (b/c there are sophomores who got into this class, and they'd have been bumped if seniors had put it first). So yeah, maybe there were *other* classes that they "had" to take to be able to graduate; my question is, why can't you plan ahead so this doesn't happen your LAST SEMESTER? (A history major is NOT hard to complete.)

(Sorry, I've been wanting to rant about that!)

Oh, and I bet you'll get two or three more who just show up on the first day because their advisors told them to do that. Never mind contacting the instructor, just show up and you'll get in the class.

I had a student try to do that on the fourth day of class. She just walked in like she thought I would sign her override without question. Umm, no, thanks for playing, who's next?

Frankly, the first request doesn't seem at all outrageous; I would expect the student reasons that the move won't affect your overall teaching burden for the term.

Old fogey speaks: We didn't get all this kerfluffle before e-mail was everywhere. Back then, before the Civil War, students had to find you to make their speech ("Gotta have your class--it's at a time and in a building I want"). Of course you were hiding, and your phone didn't having an answering machine. "I need your class to graduate" is never true: they need all their classes to graduate. Grrrr. Thanks for the chance to rant.

At least these requests are fundamentally literate (or did you edit?). The ones I have received this term are riddled with the errors in the most basic areas of spelling, grammar, and punctuation, or begin with a salutation like "Yo!"

Perhaps my prospective students feel that demonstrating their desperate need for education so blatantly will help their case?

hang tough--

P.S./Oops--so embarrassing to introduce one's own grammar errors when ranting about students' errors; please omit the "the" before "errors" above...In my defense, it's 6 a.m., and I am not requesting permission to add...
;)

The first one isn't so awful, only because the advisor told the student to contact you - the only awful part is that the student hasn't yet learned that advisors don't know anything. I had many issues my first year of college where my advisors would instruct me to do certain things (they definitely championed the "just show up on the first day of class and you'll get in!" tactic) that my professors just loathed. I was so glad when I got into my major and my professors became my advisors.

Hehe Dorcasina's right...I forgot about emails that say things like:
"hey prof w im susie student & i need ur class 2 graduate........r u gonna have room cuz i need an override thanxxxxx"

Oh man. This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Why do students just assume that if they want something, they'll automatically get it just for asking? Ugh.

hey, can you let me in? i'm cute and i'll bring my dog to class!

I have let in all students who wanted to add my over-enrolled class, gladly. I tell them "sure, you can add because I always get a lot of drops once students see how hard my quizzes and tests are." And I do have a ton of drops - I lost 10 kids after my first week of one class (total enrollment 46).

And here's one for the poor grammar pet peeve. I had a student write about getting into the honor's section of the class - he was "wandering if that would be possible. I just wandered." Twice - and he spelled my last name wrong! Get the name right, dammit!

I think some students have these expectations because other professors teach them to. It's infuriating...they're doing a disservice to their own kind!

YO!
i dont no whut ur class is 'bout, but i realy wanna take it.

huked on fonix werked fer me

I pulled this once as an undergrad. I was on a semester-abroad program with my university, and halfway through the semester, I realized I wanted to add a second major. This was before e-mail, so as soon as I got home, I found my advisor, who gladly supported this decision, and we mapped out a four-more-years-plan. This was a tricky plan, as it required careful juggling of required courses that were offered ONCE every 2-3 years. This plan would NOT work without being able to take psych 101 the very next term. There was only one measly little section offered that term, and it was full.

So first I tried every community college within 45 minutes. All were full, or at times conflicting with other courses I needed.

I finally went to the prof and begged. He was very annoyed, because I was, he said, the 14th person to make the request that very day. He turned them all down, but when I showed them that I'd 1) tried other colleges first; and 2) had carefully mapped out a schedule, he relented, angrily, just for me. For the rest of the term, he then alternated between glaring and pretending not to notice me in his class.

Now that I'm on the other side of the podium, I can understand the problem a little better. I think most students just don't plan out their schedules very carefully.

They make it hard for the students who are the exceptions to the above.

Ugh. Several students tried to add our course this quarter AFTER the first paper was due. On the quarter system, students must be quick, quick, quick in deciding which classes to take, or they lose out. Still, some of them never seem to learn... Fortunately, the professor under whom I'm TA'ing this quarter has strict rules: if you add the course late, you're still subject to the same paper deadlines as everyone else. If you add on the day everyone turns in papers, then you need to do so as well. If you missed the first day of class, when an extra-credit assignment was handed out that's due the second day of class, you can't do the extra credit. It takes a lot of the headache out of my grading; I hate it when student work dribbles in.

I got a student signing an email with 'Allah is great' before...

I must admit, though, the squeaky wheel does get the oil...

I've never heard of being punished for publishing too much!

Stop me before I publish again!

What? These people think we have any control over when things actually show in up print?

And what makes 2 pubs bad or suspicious? Does it mean they think you'll leave? Or are they afraid you're trying to get tenure there? I mean, I just don't get it.

This does sound odd, and I think it would be perfectly acceptable to explain that some of the questions seem a bit unusual and to ask the committee, calmly and uninquisition-like, why they're asking for the additional information.

That is just freakin' ridiculous. "We want you to publish, just not right now." ??? Yeeeeeesh.

This is Very Bizarre.
And may not be a good sign.
I'm worried for you because I'd like to see you get tenure and then tell them to go f themselves.

The world is now officially crazy. I am hearing more and more of these bizarre stories from the tenure trenches. I recently overheard someone on the tenure committee make a comment that a certain junior faculty member shouldn't get tenure because she is not aggressive enough (personality wise, not professional). Because she reminds him of a little girl (she's small with a cartoonish voice), he thinks she is not cut out to be a tenure-track scientist. WTF?!! Did he actually say all of that with his outside voice? Yep, I heard it all.

You need to lower your bar, apparently, if you want to move up.

Seriously, publishing too much? WTF is with those fuckers? Poor Cheeky.

Odd indeed. No matter what you do, you just can't satisfy them. Rest Cheeky. Rest.

ugh. pimping yourself out, eh? I totally hate writing crap like that.

but I hope you get it!!!

Do you have to compete with others for a chance at a sabbatical? Here it's an issue of schedule and merit. One can apply for an early sabbatical, but that's usually contingent upon some sort of funding for a replacement.

In any case, I hope you get your relief!

Yes, hoping that the pimping gets you the prize. It's an ugly business, but it's not your fault. :-)

hehe it's kinda funny to know that professors have nightmares about school, just like their students :)

It's true, geeky. And we also get nervous when we're being evaluated by our supervisors!

This is my first summer off from school in 3 years and I am liking it a little too much. Going home after work is nice. Having no homework is also nice.

I actually get to start my upper division coursework, so yay! for that, but getting psyched up for school is hard. Starting a new school (I'm a transfer student) is a little nerve-wracking too. New territory, new professors, new students. eek. Only 3 weeks to go. I am glad to know that the prof's get a little nervous too. It's weird to think that y'all are people too!

Only three weeks left to go here. Gah. The only thing that's keeping me from driving a sharp object into my jugular is knowing that I have only 6 classes and my professional paper to do and I will be finished!

Hope you get to enjoy your last bit of vacation!

Count your blessings... only FOUR to go here!!

Hey, only three weeks here..... I'm ready for May again. ;-)

funny. My back to school dream is always about taking a trip and not having my passport or ticket while everyone else does. And rushing around at the last minute wondering why I'm not ready and everyone else is calmly waiting at the airport.

Then, there's the related dream about how I never passed high school algebra and have to go back to h.s. to take it, EVEN THOUGH I have a PhD. I must have entitlement issues.

Cute dog.

Please DO NOT tell my brain that I need to be having back-to-school dreams. I don't want them. No. No thanks.

Two weeks here. I must say that I don't feel as much pressure this time. You're right...how did that happen?

I propose a moratorium on the subject of school starting again! It's end of summer "exploding head syndrome" time!

Oh man, I hate those creepy school dreams!

I'm in back to school panic mode about now. Only three weeks and all the projects I planned on doing over the summer....not done.

And I leave for vacation on the 18th. Come back the 25th. Classes start the 29th. So I need to get motivated and do all this before I leave for vacation!

I had a my first nightmare "trying to get a major into a class" run in this week. If only it had been a dream. It would be nice if all people in other departments instead of select ones remembered that I am the de-facto advisor for our majors.

Please don't remind me!

Two weeks to go here, and I've been having the "no syllabus, teaching in a ratty t-shirt dream" coupled with the dream in which I have to go back and take freshman gym in high school again. Doh!!! And, Gah!!!

That looks like the Walrus from Alice in Wonderland.

omg!!! I have a stuffed Lorax, too...and the sing-along Lorax video, and of course the book... Okay, I'm a little obsessed (esp. since I'm 36 with no kids), but I *love* this character...in fact, friends used to jokingly call me "Lori-ax" instead of "Lorianne"! :-)

I could be way off, especially since my brain likes to shake and stir old memories of mine, but this Lorax (not familiar with, I don't think) kinda looks like the Abominable Snowman of that stop-animation classic featuring Rudolph. It seems like you could bleech the Lorax and have the snowman. Not, of course, that you would subject the poor thing to such harsh chemicals.

Bleach. I think it should read "bleach."

Heh.. looking at that reminded me of the artist that drew out the bone structures of famous cartoon characters (http://michaelpaulus.com/gallery/character-Skeletons). I'll bet that 'stache would end up with a few structural bones underneath.

the lorax is my favorite as well. when the kids were younger i had the book almost memorized we read it so often.
i am very jealous of your office buddy!

I love the Lorax--to this day, I will read through the story just for fun. What a great find.

Would you believe one of my college professors made it a point to teach the Lorax story? In health class, no less????

i really hope it goes in your favor because i really hate people that think they're special and therefore exempt from the rules everyone else has to follow. especially when they use their money to get special treatment. at least the chair and the dean both have your back!

Shoot -- I'm sorry. I do give participation points just for showing up -- but it's basically still an F. I weigh the grades, so class participation (not online, that's a separate participation grade) is 20%. So if they show up and never participate, they will still get 50 on the grade scale of 100. But if I were not teaching hybrids with Blackboard participation (another 20%), I'd weigh it more. What I've noticed is that consistent 50s count, and really do kill the grades of the undeserving, but by giving 50-60% on a given assignment, the students find it harder to argue. Because you've shown that they did 'something' rather than 'nothing.' There seems to be a lot more emotional investment in being recognized for the 'something' and they still are likely to fail.

ADM, I see what you mean. In some of my lower level classes I've given a few points for showing up. However, I just can't bring myself to do it in this class. It's an elective, and I harp on them the first day that it's a discussion-based class and if they aren't comfortable with talking in class or don't think they can handle it, they need to drop. I also make it very clear they will receive nothing for just showing up and sitting there. (Because if everyone did that we'd be sitting around in silence all semester!)

The funny thing is two other students took a big participation hit but knew it was coming (and deserved) so they didn't argue it. Also, although participation killed this student, s/he was nearly failing anyway with consistently bad papers and the 2nd lowest final exam score in the class.

And the worst part of all? This was a student I signed in the 2nd day of class, breaking my own rule of never adding anyone after class has started. I just keep kicking myself thinking, if I'd only stuck to my guns.... Grrrr! And then this sort of thing makes me consider dropping the discussion format and just going back to a boring old lecture.

Ugh... Cheeky...

I'm sorry...

here's to hoping that it will end soon and with as little irritation on your side as possible.

A friend of mine has made a very interesting list of the preformance of students who add classes late. I'm sure you won't be surprised to know that almost all of them end up with grief.
Good luck on this - I hope it ends well.

This is so disturbing. Sadly, it happens at all grade levels. I am surprised that it happens in college for the mere fact that these classes cost money...unless mommy and daddy are paying.

I've been in your shoes and I feel your angst. Good luck.

I really admire your thoroughness in this case! And in your syllabi.

Oh, Dr. Cheeky,

This is probably the most annoying aspect of professordom. I will cross fingers and toes that this comes out right. It just has to. This little bitch has not a leg to stand on, and I'm hoping that the admin folks get that.

As a student, I have seen plenty of other students who add classes late and then proceed to flake and fail the class and blame it on other people or other factors. They usually annoy the crap out of me. I guess they think they are special if they get to add late.

That is infuriating. I hope their appeal is DENIED. How ironic that you have to do so much work to prove that they didn't do enough work. gah.

Anyway, lectures are never as fun and I never learn nearly as much as I do in a discussion class, so even though I am not taking your class, I hope you don't drop the format because of a few bad seeds.

What a ginormous horse's ass. Fail 'em again, just for good measure, and for being a dumb ass.

It is precisely the persistent students who know how to game the system, and stick with it, than can really, really burn us. Thankfully, most students are too clueless to stick with it like this individual. I agree with your feelings -- this case should be a test for your institution, to get it right by standing by you. But you've given alot of documentation and documentation makes administrative types have more backbone. So, I think you have a good chance.

I am very lucky that my university has amazing policies on this sort of thing. There is a list of 4 allowable reasons for a grade change, and the student has to show how hir case fits into one of those 4 categories and provide documentation. (They are pretty specific, too, things like "circumstances beyond the students' control caused an exam to be interrupted.")

Good luck!

That is truly infuriating. It is a problem at all levels. I am forced to give traditional grades in my library classes now (long story - not worth it) rather than keep it pass-fail with indicators of success (or lack thereof) in 6 areas. I have a rubric which is posted in several places in my room. I explain it on day one and often during the subsequent quarters. I also have it posted on the school's web service for parents & students. Each kiddo starts with full credit in everything for each class period and has to be fairly incorrigible to lose credit.

I've still been accosted by parents furious about the grade I have "given" their offspring. I explain through clenched jaws that I do not give grades: students earn them.

I have only failed one kid on one quarter in recent memory - and have given perhaps a half dozen D's, so we're not talking about Simone Legree here.

The one that takes the taco is the student (well, more like pupil, not student) who told me last quarter that I had no right to give her a crappy grade, as I had asked her to waste time doing unimportant tasks for which she had no need. After my lengthy explanation (including "Do you refuse to do problems in math if you don't see the need for them immediately?" Her answer: "Yes!"), she remained adamant and I suggested she was welcome to request a meeting with me, the principal, and her mother (another teacher!) . Her mother finally decided against it - barely. The kickers: the grade I gave her was a B+ (she wanted an A). And (brace yourself) she's 12 years old.

I have never yet been overruled and asked or ordered to change a grade, but the possibility is always lurking and onerous. Inevitably this all leads to my frequent rant: what has happened to personal responsibility? What happens to institutions, and cultures, when it disappears?

I hope you prevail. I hope your institution values its reputation, if not integrity. If the student weren't a total dolt deserving failure, s/he would want that too.

If this student can win an appeal against you, something must be seriously wrong with the system.
I am glad we don't give participation marks for classes in the UK - but then again I am wondering how I am going to get everyone to participate when I start teaching next year!

I hope that this battle is over soon and you will be able to put this behind you.

This sucks.

I once had a student challenge a B+. She insisted that her boss reviewed her presentation and thought it was good, so clearly she deserved an A! No matter how many times I explained it, she never accepted the fact that her boss wasn't teaching or grading the course.

Fortunately, her appeal was so badly written that when the program director asked me for a reply, he noted that she clearly didn't deserve the grade change. And one of the faculty members who reviewed her portfolio thought she really deserved a C. (I probably did inflate some--it was my first semester adjuncting there).

I hope the Dean upholds your Chair's decision.

A brilliant friend of mine uses the "health club analogy" in cases like this. Paying for membership at a healt club does not a beautiful body guarantee; instead, one pays for the right to be there. What one gets out of the health club, like education, depends upon what one puts into it.

Now that I use this during the first week of class, the whining has diminished immensely. I'd want to strangle this brat as well, but rest assured that this problem exists EVERYWHERE. Let the beatings commence!

I love russianviolets's analogy (and not just because I can mess with fellow readers' heads with that use of an apostrophe-s formation). An intellectual health club...

My institution's academic grievance policy makes it very clear that students have to contact professors before there's even a chance of a grievance. Does your institution have a formal policy that makes that clear?

Came here via Phantom Scribbler. How frustrating, and how similar to other areas of work; I have employees whose attendance and error rate result in a clearly outlined chain of disciplinary action, yet when they are on "final warning" or are fired, act as if they have NO IDEA why. And yeah, the student should have been referred back to you by the Dean.

My experiences with the state university model show that students may still have this entitlement attitude -- and their PARENTS call and complain, and the administration may side with students / parents. That's another story that we'll have to talk about in There dot com or something.

Like russianviolets, I've used the health club analogy, though with a different twist: I talk about my role as being the personal trainer of the mind, sort of body Bildung, to use a pun I borrowed from a colleague. The point is that the personal trainer can't do the workout for you, and you can't expect to improve simply by paying a personal trainer. You still have to do the workouts yourself. Yes, the analogy does seem to work.

As for the Dean, it might have been one of those cases where the Dean didn't feel there was a choice, since if the student is graudating the issue might have needed to be resolved immediately. Of course that still doesn't explain why the Dean called your chair, except perhaps that the Dean didn't want you to feel like the Dean was pressing you to change the grade.

jwb

what I don't get is why the dean's first question to the student wasn't "have you spoken to the prof?" followed by "Have you spoken to the chair?" Answered no and no, the dean should be saying, go try that and get back to me.

Students are allowed to be a little clueless about academic propriety, but when they make mistakes, they should be corrected by people who (ought to) know better.

I was thinking the same things as Anastasia. I can think of one dean around here though who called me to yell at me for not immediately fixing a problem when a student who missed her exam even though her prof had pointed out when and where it was numerous times (even took the class to the room) and signs were posted, it was on their Syllabus and in the online course schedule. Happily my boss made it quite clear to the dean that it was the student's problem, and she should quit harassing me.

Mr. Swampy is a high school teacher, so sometimes we share student horror stories trying to outdo each other. This total lack of respect for the chain of command begins young, my friends.

Three years ago, when Mr. Swampy was teaching at an upscale public school, he gave a freshman student a B for the class. The kid screwed himself on the final project. Summer vacation had already started and Mr. Swampy had quit that job to move with me (easier to find H.S. jobs than university jobs) to a different state.

The kid's father's LAWYER called the school principal saying that they were going to sue unless all the kid's grades were changed -- not just in Mr. Swampy's class, but ALL classes. The reason? Student X had lost any chance of getting a scholarship to college. The principal (a real smuck, IMHO) had the guidance counseler call Mr. Swampy and ask him if he'd change the grade. My husband is a brave man, who had nothing left to lose, and said "Like h***!" Maybe he should have changed it ... to a lower grade.

We get this in abundance in public schools. Piles of kids and their parents who feel that if they try at all, that alone merits a pass or better whether they've actually learned or accomplished anything or not. Our admin often doesn't want to stand up to parents (and their bottom-feeding lawyers). The classic was a monster who aimed a loaded flare gun at my colleague across the hall. He was given a three day suspension - until his parents and attorney showed up a 7 the morning to claim the flare gun wasn't technically a weapon - he was back in class by 7:30. Heartening. The smarmy little toad then challenged this teacher to a slalom race during the ski club trip. Of course the fact that her bun, specs, and ortho shoes cleverly disguised a talented, experienced skier who learned in the Alps led to a very satisfying come-uppance on the snowy trail! I often go with my husband's favorite quote from Yoda: Do or do not: there is no try.

I use the health club analogy every semester as well. Students usually laugh. Then pause with furrowed brow.

I teach at a large state university. The students don't even bother going to the dead. They complain to the President's Office. The president sends the complaint along to the Provost's Office where a Dean of Students picks up the phone and calls the department chair who then calls the professor.

Did I say that the students go to the President's Office?

I meant the students' parents. My university's biggest and most frequent complaints have to do with those "blasted liberally-biased-bleeding-heart-Arab-loving-professors who are preaching all that is unAmerican and teaching students to hate their country."

Bitter? Who me?

Oops. I meant to type that "students don't even bother going to the DEAN" not the dead.

Proofread much? Yeah, yeah.

The health club analogy, which I've never heard before, is perfect! I plan to use it from now on.

My guess is that the student went straight to the dean because he knew he didn't have a leg to stand on, and if he had come to you or to your chair, he would have been set straight.

I hope it worked out.

From the dean's perspective, the usual right way to go is to ask the student if s/he has already spoken to the professor; if not, send the student to the prof. The invariable student response, though, is "the prof. is never around, her office hours are during my work hours..." You refer the student to the chair, and the same thing happens. So, out of desperation, the dean calls the chair. Calling the prof directly would be worse, since it would almost certainly come across as pressure. I see the intermediate steps as necessary, to prevent any faculty claims of arm-twisting by The Administration. Sorry if that's defensive, but if there's a better way to handle it (esp. when a deadline is at issue, such as with impending graduation), I haven't found it.

I know someone who, in GRADUATE SCHOOL, had his mother call the PRESIDENT when he got a poor grade in a class.

His MOTHER.
Called the PRESIDENT.
For a GRADUATE COURSE!!!!!!!

I don't like students who don't take responsibility for their learning. When I was an undergrad I was a workstudy student for my advisor. It drove me crazy when parents would call her and say, "My son/daughter is interested in your program..." They would do the same at recruiting sessions held by the school, and say things like, "We're interested in..." Umm, who's WE? You? The kid standing next to you? I never know how to respond to these people.

Excellent! That is a nice way to end the semester. Yay Cheeky!

congrats! that's great news.

Woo! Congrats. Definitely a good way to end the semester.

One of these days I'll get my first publication...

hooray!

Yippee!!!!!

Hurrray! Terrfic start to the summer.

*happy dance for cheeky*

Congratulations!

YAY! Is this the one based on your diss?

Wonderful—good job!

way to go!

Great news!

Congratulations!

Yay - congratulations!

I missed this b/c I was so stoked about the puppy -- Big congrats!!

Wow, a publication and a puppy!! very exciting. Btw, love love love the new blog design.

Yay! And only minor revisions. Yay, yay!

jwb

NICE!!! I'm glad to hear it. Loving the puppy countdown. Adorable! Glad things are looking up!

Congrats! I'm sitting on a couple myself that I really need to submit. Ugh...I hate the journal process.

Congratulations!

you go girl!

Oh how exiting! Congratulations!

oh no... boo for meetings all day long... and on a FRIDAY?!?! :(

Sorry to hear about meetings all day. Ick, ick, ick. Yes, let's hope that it's at least not a waste of time!

jwb

i've seen those stamps before (there's a set i think), and i've been trying to come up with an excuse to buy them ever since :)

Oh, that's too perfect. I knew a prof who had a "bullshit" stamp that he used quite liberally until he had the misfortune of using it on a paper written by the daughter of a wealthy university donor. (heh) I also have heard of profs drawing a line and writing "This is where I stopped reading" on particularly wretched papers.

Alas, as a foolish writing prof, I read every last word...(sigh)

just make a grading statement in your syllabus that simply says that if you find that a paper has more then 10 mistakes, grammar, spelling, logic, or otherwise that you detect, it will get a zero and the student will have to go to the writing center for help with a rewrite. state this rule every time a written assignment is due and enforce it. in short, just don't let the get away with it.

Bwah ha ha! I love it, and I don't even teach. I wish that some of my profs had been brave enough to use it on some of my fellow students though. Poor writing is just not acceptable in grad school.

O-M-G!!! YES!! I returned essays to ten students today with that same sentiment. I told them to rewrite and to use the correct format. It's May for God's sake. They know better!

I could never buy a set - I'd be too tempted to use them on memos from "colleagues"

my literature-phd-candidate-office-mate just printed out a set of stickers saying "explain the fvcking quote," something we are both sick of writing again and again and again and again on student papers.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA! That's GREAT!

My mom used to be an English professor. By the end of the semester, she would be so frustrated by the crap she was getting from her students that she would claim to stand at the top of the stairs and throw the stack of papers down the stairs. The papers were then graded according to where on the staircase they landed: at the bottom got an F, closer to the top got A's or B's. You gould try that. ;)

I LOVED the stamp. I just finished about three hours of grading and that is exactly the sentiment I was feeling! Some of the writing from my students made me want to cry. . .

.
I was wandering blogland and found this site via lexablog->second order approximation...(dr.dave)->bitch.ph.d. Normally I just read a few entries and cruise on to another site without commenting. Today, however, I had to leave a message saying, "Thanks for the laugh!".

I LOVED the stamp. I just finished about three hours of grading and that is exactly the sentiment I was feeling! Some of the writing from my students made me want to cry.

I was wandering blogland and found this site via lexablog->second order approximation...(dr.dave)->bitch.ph.d. Normally I just read a few entries and cruise on to another site without commenting. Today, however, I had to leave a message saying, "Thanks for the laugh!".

Where can I get one of those!

ok, so you know i'm in grad school. i hate grad school. but you know, i feel like my professors this semester just have this pasted on their forehead! then they give me a 100, and move on.

Oh god yes.

Wow. This must be horribly frustrating. I'm not TT, so I'm genuinely wondering: are there budgetary reasons why the Chair would want you untenured for an extra year? Or is he just really clueless?

I'm sorry--this really sucks.

ugh. sounds awful. i'm sorry that your chair, dept. and school are treating you so poorly.

my thoughts are with you!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I wish you could have just gone up anyhow, but since you don't feel supported by the chair(s), it makes sense why you're feel like you can't. I'm totally frustrated for you.

Oh. My. God. What a nightmare -- I really feel for you. Guess you can't argue for a retroactive raise next year, either?

-Ivy

maybe in the end this will be a blessing. now that you know just how unsupportive and unappreciative your department chairs are, do you really want to be tenured there when you could be happier somewhere else?

Oh, that bites. I'm so sorry.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... You need a Point of View gun for those idiot chairs.

That just sucks.

Oh, god, I'm so sorry. Your comment about your department chair being one of the easiest profs in the school leads me to think that student evaluations (which tend to be correlated with course easiness more than anything else) are playing a large role in his assessment that you haven't distinguished yourself with teaching...so frustrating. Argh!

-MS, who is searching for jobs and who worries that prospective employers are actually going to take her evals on ratemyprofessors.ca seriously

I'm so sorry. This situation really sucks. Is there no way you can go up around your Chair's recommendations? (I know that will have ramifications too, but ... ) GRRRR.

I'm so very sorry, and I'm resisting ranting about the fucking tenure process as a whole, because that's my soapbox and not necessarily one you want to hear right now!

AARRGG! How incredibly frustrating. I want to fire that chair for you!!! I'm so sorry!!!

Oh, I feel your pain. At my last position, the university completely reorganized the college the year I went up for tenure. One moment I was in a College of Liberal Arts, the next they'd moved my department to a new College of Science and Technology, with a new dean who was a world-class dickweed who made it his personal mission to reshape our biology program into something more like a med school.

It was a painful transition, but looking back, I'm glad I had to move.

Gah! I was fortunate that I had a very supportive department. With a new baby in hand I went up for tenure, assured to have no worries. Even the one bad letter in my file was like a feather in my cap (written, as it was, by useless colleague who's still ABD thirty years on and thoroughly despised across the institution).

All I can say is start pulling things together NOW for your go at tenure next year. Pull together another publication, if you can, over the summer. Scout out one more conference to have on the list of where you'll be presenting next year. Have a senior colleague go over the portfolio with you and get ready to kick some ass when time comes!

Ugh. What a crappy story. It's also crappy that your Chair-to-Be isn't any more supportive than your current chair. I hate the idea that chairs wield so much power, because they don't often get their jobs because of their administrative prowess. More likely no one else would do it. I wish I could offer more consolation, but at least know that I feel for you.

Sorry to hear about this, Cheeky. I have no advice, but I wish the best for you in this difficult situation.

Wow, how horrible! Your chairs need some serious beating with the Clue Stick.

bleh, what a shitty situation. no advice... I'd say leave, but I know it isn't that easy. plus, that might mean a move or a long commute and that isn't necessarily an improvement either. hope things get better somehow (or at least not any worse!) :)

I'm so sorry to read this. What a pain in the ass! I hope that you're coming to the end of the semester and will have some time to be good to yourself soon.

If possible, schedule a meeting with the chair and the dean, all 3 of you together, make it clear to them both that you do not want to wait, and reitterate to your chair with the dean in the room, your qualifications for tenure. This way, there's minimal chance of any miscommunication.

Congrats, Cheeky! Tomorrow is Spring Cleaning Day up in the Spellbound hizzie. I am breaking out all my best cleansers. I'm a wild woman!

congrats! much better than a cube anyday!

I'm glad you're getting the new space and all but yeah it's very sad that you are excited about random file sorting..haha..hey I'm just agreeing with you here :)

YAY! Bring Pics!!

hey, I like spring cleaning too. they gave me a new desk a few weeks ago and it felt great to throw away so much crap that was hidden in the old one.

congrats on the new office!

happy new office! :)

Yay for the new office! Enjoy the space.

Hooray! Work environment makes such a difference!

Congratulations! I'm still in the same office I got in 1991. The previous tenant had been in there since the building opened in the 70s so the filing cabinet is sunk into the floor and there is pretty much just one way to set up the office around such fixtures.

Sigh! What I wouldn't give for some fresh paint and a rearrangement. So enjoy yours doubly for me!

There's just something about setting up an office that is so freakin' fun. I'm not sure why.

What I love about cleaning and filing and sorting is that I can listen to music while I am doing it because it doesn't require any concentration. Much more fun than grading papers.

Congratulations! Not sad at all - my office consists of a chair loaded with crap, plus a box full of crap topped with another pile of crap. You have a reason to rejoice without apology!

Congratulations on the new office. I always get more when I get a change of space, even a minor one. Invigorating, isn't it?

Your office must look SO COOL! (Cooler than mine, at least!) And I love that you went to the effort of taking a picture of the disco ball, but blurred the titles of the books on the shelf. ;-)

Very nice! I think everyone needs their own Stuff in their office.

Enjoyed reading a bit in here.

CheekyProf, you are too cool!

very nice disco ball!

All you need now are some nice sushi throw pillows and it'll be the perfect office ;)

Love the pictures! more more more!!!!

I used to have an Elvis clock that looked a lot like that. His hips swiveled as a pendulum.

Sadly, it broken when we moved. :(

you mean you don't get the less than one ply stuff we get! talk about jealousy!

Toilet paper quality is a serious issue. Chaffing, tear through, paper cuts, ect.. can all lead to the beginnings of a horrid day. I say rejoice in quality paper!

Gwen-
The stuff you describe is what we used to have. It was awful. It took about the length of a football field to have the "required thickness." I'm not getting too excited, though, in case it's only temporary.

I work in a place with a clean, warm bathroom AND high quality toilet paper. These little things do matter ....

Better for all the students to steal. :)

We used to use "John Wayne" toilet paper at the hospital I used to work at. It was "rough, tough and wouldn't take shit off anybody."

LOL@Manic's comment!

i want to work where you work. they won't fix my toilet that won't flush right, let alone get us non-baker's tissue toilet paper.

Woohoo! The value of good TP is never to be underestimated.

jwb

no fair. all we have is the standard 1 ply sandpaper :(

I'm sooo jealous.

We don't even get hot water in the sinks.

My uni has toilet paper that tears as soon as you start rolling it off - so you get one quare at a time. One square of toilet paper cannot wipe - someone actually wrote a message on the toilet paper that they needed to change it. Who knew one day I would be swapping toilket paper stories :-)

That is brilliant!

Oh. I WANT one of those!

You gave ME one of these. :D

I keep gum in it.

LOL

That's great! Good for you for having one!

My mom used to teach English at the college level. When he completed her PhD in English, she was given a sign that sets on her desk like a nameplate. It reads: ENGLISH SPOKE HERE. It's hilarious. You could use one of those right next to this ceramic jar!

Oooh, I gotta get me one of those!

OMG!! Is it ok for me to really like that?

Eep..

My old boss had one of those too, 'cept hers said "...Problem Employees."

Love it!!

But how do you fit all the ashes into that little jar?

I love that!

The Evil English Department secretary has that jar sitting on her desk. The first time I saw it, I full believed there might actually be student ashes in the jar because she is such an evil bitch.

Ooooh, yes, that's my recurring nightmare. In some versions, I'm teaching in a room next to a factory or train track, the upshot being that SOMETHING loud & noisy is right next door & I have to scream to be heard. (And I'm not a quiet or breathy person!)

But here in Small Town, NH, the main noise I have to worry about while teaching is ambulance sirens zipping down Main Street, coming from outlying towns & headed to our only-one-for-miles-around hospital. You think sick people would have more courtesy than to interrupt MY CLASS! :-)

must have been the night for crazy dreams!

hopefully it will go much better when you actually cover for that class. (but i'd bring the megaphone just in case)

I did a show once in front of 900 people who couldn't have cared less that people were telling jokes, so they just talked (loudly) amongst themselves. It was so loud that I couldn't hear myself think, much less talk.

If something like that happens, my advice would be to find a dark corner, curl up in the fetal position, and cry.

Oh Cheeky, I know exactly how you feel. It will not be anything like your dream; trust me. You'll be fine. After all, you are the Cheeky Prof! :)

I'll sub for you!!

I love subbing ... sometimes I do it kinda-sorta illegally at my school ...

Well, not really illegally, because I don't really get paid for it, but sometimes a prof will ask me to "watch their class" ... and/or "talk to the students about ________" (fill in the blank) and it ends up being a real lecture on whatever the hell the students are studying... normally it's an English/History/Com/WGS/whatever class, and it's not until after I'm done jackin' my jaws in front of people (like I do so well) that I realise they're usin' and abusin' me!

I totally need to get paid for this shit already, but it's not like the teachers in Flint don't get robbed of their wages as it is ...

(Oy, that's depressing.)

I just stopped by to tell you the answers to your questions from last week are up, eh!

I hope things went well for you today!

Happy Valentine's Day!!!

When my students either won't quiet down (or won't say a word) I just tell them I love them "like a fat kid love cake" (as 50 cent would put it). It seems to get their attention. But it doesn't really get us on track so I'm not sure what the point of it is.

Can't wait to hear how your day went. Did you have to host a Valentine's Day party as well?

Sounds like a standard teaching nightmare to me! Don't we all have them?

Oh that is just nasty!!! I'm so sorry.

Do students at your school often do crap like this?

What! I'm speechless. Are you going to report it? Speechless. Just speechless. That's horrible.

Surely you can get the university to trace where the call originated and kick the student's ass...

wow. that's pretty amazing. agreed on the call trace and police involvement. do what you can to do it quietly, but do take action.

I completely agree - you should report it. I cannot BELIEVE a student would do something like that and they should NOT be allowed to think that's okay. I'm so sorry - that's disgusting.

Judging by his wooing skills he must have one roll of tape set out next to the bed for that very purpose. Actually, I'd wager a guess that he goes ahead and buys the value pack of 4 rolls of tape just to save a little money in the long run.

Ick, ick, ick!! Definitely get that call traced/reported.

!!

Gross and alarming! I'm so sorry.

Wow. That's definitely offensive. Do you have any idea who it is? Do you recognize the voice?

I'm sorry you had to deal with that.

yes... we need more info on what you heard from campus security, etc. I wonder if it was even a student? What a fucking asshole.

Whoa! How awful. I hope justice is served.

What a little SHIT! Stupid drunken frat boy assholes razzle frazzle. That's totally unacceptable! I second (or third, fourth, or fifth) contacting campus security and tracking that little fucker down.

What a loser.
Can't say I'm surprised.

that's awful. awful. you should find out who that is and report them to the dean of students at the least, and the police and the most. that's disgusting.

ugh!! I hope your campus security and dept head were both reasonable about this. That has to make going to the office beyond creepy.

I was a little curious as to the reason Jerry would need Chekky if He's already got his pals Jim and Jason in a tasty little circle-jerk. I really think that the Cheeky One should record this message and make it available so that we can all hear what a druken piss ant like Jerry thinks passes as his "sexy" voice.

At our university, the voicemail system records the source of all incoming calls. As a bonus, security takes such harassment very seriously. We had a student expelled a few years back for a similar stunt (it actually involved a threatened sexual assault as well as general pornographic maunderings).

You have my deepest sympathies.

Definitely document this kind of thing. The little shits need to know this is inappropriate and awful.

Yes, I frequently *do* hate college-aged men in groups, especially when they've been drinking, why do you ask?

If nothing else you should make a written documentation of it (other than here, natch) and let HR or higher ups know and keep a record in case it happens again.

Sorry that happened either way, that's very upsetting.

What they said about security and documentation. Really. I was having issues with a student who merely seemed to have no clear line about appropriate behavior. He creeped me out, and I called security and let them know that I realised it was probably nothing, felt stupid calling, but kid occasionally said things that creeped me out. Turns out he had had similar issues with other female faculty and that security were keeping a file. As an open door campus, we have to let everybody in unless there is documented evidence not to. Security saw this guy as someone who might turn predatory. Later, I found that students had come to other faculty with concerns because they knew he was a sexual predator (latched onto women with low self-esteem, ended up in sexual relationships of dubious consent levels) but the women directly involved would not come forward. Security couldn't do anything without direct complaints, but knowing they took gut feelings seriously made me feel much better.

damn cheeky! that is wrong on so many levels! i do hope you are moving this through the right channels. sounds like jerry needs to find a different institution to spread his "love." maybe a stint at the local jail is more appropriate for him than cushy academia.

my heart goes out to you. you didn't deserve that.

Do let us know what happens, OK? And don't let the little shits get to you (since that's what they want).

I've been thinking about this all day -- can't believe how idiotic these kids were/are.

This might be a strange thing to latch on to after reading that, but...boys masturbate together? Weird.

I'll reiterate what everyone else said, don't let this go without getting this moron in deep trouble!! It's wrong on so many levels.

What the heck?? I would report this if you can. Especially if you know who they are.

I agree with all the above (including the web-posting of the sound file >:) ) It was possibly some douchebag who failed the class and sought retribution. Go through the last semester's roll (or even this semester's) and track down all the Jerrys. If you have any way of tracing the call's source, that will help tremendously in nailing the asshole. You did not deserve that. Go get 'im!

Sadly, I get excited about that kind of thing too. And hey, without static cling, think of how much better your hair will look!

Ooh, and does it have those sexy flourescent lights, too? They always bring me the most delightful headaches.

I will be interested to see if it works for static...I get shocks off everything I touch on certain days..maybe its the air here too.

Gawd, offices do suck. I used to have an office that blew cold air all winter and warm in summer. Wish I were kidding, but I'm not.

I find myself jealous after spending the day freezing in my office and only finding out 10 minutes before leaving that the air conditioner actually pumps heat if you turn the dial up. They don't teach things like that in grad school.

I just bought a humidifier for my bedroom and it ROCKS. I love that thing. Go you and yea! for the new humidifier!!

I think we might work at the same school! My problem is that the thermostat for my office is in a colleague's office down the hall--and she has an entirely different thermal attitude.

i just got a new one last night & it's silent and just dreamy... not a boring topic at all!

My office is cold in summer, warm in winter, too. The problem here is One Big HVAC Plant that controls the whole campus. We have "switch-over" days that sometimes occur later or earlier than we'd like. Oh, well. I remember at a really early point in my cereer when I shared an office--a former Nursing School lab--with 6 other people.

And I thought only my office had that problem.
I feel for you.
I guess institutions of higher learning are no better than government buildings.
Pass the kleenex, please!

I've got my fingers crossed for you. I know we can be tough. I can barely stand the other students I go to school with and I don't have any sort of relation to them other than sharing the same class room for extended periods.

Good luck today and I hope you have a great day!

Have a great start! Good luck!

Dr. H stands alone. LOL! Kind of like "the cheese stands alone" from Farmer in the Dell, eh?

I hope today goes well for you. Let us know! Are you feeling better? I would assume you're sleeping well beause your body needs the rest and is still trying to get well.

Oh, it is such a bummer when the thing you once enjoyed is dreadful and awful and you feel as if you can't control it or your reaction to it. I really hope you have a great group of students this time around and get a super semester out of them.

Best to you!

Also, off-topic, but is Maisy a Pharaoh Hound? My sis dogsat one this week, very, very sweet!

hope it goes well! hopefully this semester will be a better group for you.

Sorry to hear about your Maisy drama. I will be thinking of you. Seems like yesterday was a shite day for everyone.

First day of the new semester is always a little nerve-racking, even for courses that I've taught several times before, because I never know if this particular group of students is going to be energetic and involved, or dull and lifeless -- or even worse, openly hostile. Ahh, the professor's life . . . :-)

Wow, just starting today! For me, week 3. I hope that you have a better semester than the last!

After reading your post about the student not bringing the pencil and this one, I thought I'd share my thoughts about why college students today are so dumb.

People are expected to go to college. It doesn't matter if the kid is a dumbass who got through high school by smoking pot and getting all Cs and Ds. His parents EXPECT that their kid will go to college. And therefore, they end up in class with all the people who actually work hard and appreciate the professors' work. Back before college was accessible to everyone, the percentage of quality, hard-working students was much, much higher. It gives the impression that people are just lazier and stupider (is that a word? :D) today, but I think it really has to do with the fact that everybody and their brother go to college now.

Of course, that doesn't really explain why people in my section in law school come to class drunk sometimes!

I'm glad that you are back in the classroom with the rest of us. I figure we are only a week or so away from the first round of complaining about how much we hate to grade papers. Misery loves company. The nice thing about this semester is that the days will get longer and the weather get warmer as we go along .... so it's bound to be better than fall semester.

Welcome to the jungle! Seriously, I hope this is a better semester for you. It sucks when you hate going to class. But hopefully that was just an aberration and this semester will be better.

As someone a few weeks in, let me tell you that Spring 05 really isn't so bad. Seriously. Much better than Fall 04. Promise. :)

I hope it went well. Just think of all the blog fodder you will have.

my institution started on the 26... my classes start on the 31. i wish i were in your class, i'd have a great time. i've not done this school thang in 7 years. i'm not sure i'm ready either.

do you think we could cancel the semester, and you would get paid and i would get credit? sounds really good to me. :)

Ha! I love Happy Bunny. Aren't there also some that say, "Hey! You're a dope, right?" and, "School prepares you for the real world, which also sucks"?

My favorite Happy Bunny is the "not listening" one, which cracks me up! Had it on a key chain for a while and had completely unintended bonding moments with students who also love Happy Bunny, so I'm not sure the stickers would quite have the effect you intend... ;-)

At some point, these kids are going to have to be introduced to reality. It might as well be now. LOL

On a side note, the best present that I got this holiday season was the 2005 Happy Bunny calendar. Definitely a good investment. It might look good hanging on the wall in your office.

i heart happy bunny :)

Can I be the friend pushing you from behind saying in your ear.."do it,
do it..it'll be funny."

LOVE Happy Bunny too. My faves are "It's all about me. Deal with it." and "I just don't listen". Also good is "I hate everybody". Because I totally have days like that. Hmm, like today for example.

More excellent stickers at unamerican.com

what grade do you teach? Because 2nd graders would just like it cuz there is a bunny on there and older kids I would hope would get the humor in it. Win win situation right?!

heh, I love Happy Bunny. I just posted a similar pic in a blog post about the annoyances of stupidity in academia - check it out :)

Oh, I'm so tempted to get some of these. I think it could make grading papers a whole lot faster. And certainly more satisfying.

I think that I'd just get it on a t-shirt and wear it to class the day I returned papers. That way I wouldn't have to part with the delicious image!

I also love Happy Bunny... I have a magnet on my file cab in the office that says "Hi, Loser." Appropriate for many a person I see these days!

And those "Lets keep notes on who pisses us off" pens are the BEST for faculty meetings...

LMAO! That's hilarious. I love the Happy Bunny stickers. I have one that says "You smell like butt!"

I used to have one that said, "I love boys. They're stupid." Hee, hee.

please do it! after all, you had to read the papers...it only seems fair!

Could I have some for fellow classmates? I could stick them to their backs like kick me signs, only, you know, this would be less violent and much cooler.

I always thought if I ever taught, I would get the Cluelessness Demotivator.

I once gave someone the "You suck and that's sad" postcard for her birthday.

You have made my morning with this one. I can't stop laughing, but have to wonder why this sticker should be limited just to students?

CB

Oh, that's great! :) I love Happy Bunny!

As a college student, I can say I'd love to get this. It would require that you spend the time to both look at the work before grading it and return it. Something sorely missing in most of my classes. I mean really why am I turning in homework if I either get the 9/10 that everyone gets or just never get it back. I'd consider this a refreshing change as long as it's returned in a timely manner.

Oh please use it! I dream of using such a sticker! (And I'd have to purchase quite the stack, indeed.) Today I had to face a horrid stack of horrible, horrible poem interpretations...they sucked so badly that if each were accompanied by a large sucking sound, the evaluator (that's me), wouldn't even hear it--that sound having become so naturalized. For instance, 70% misspelled Emily Dickinson's last name, and 90% don't follow basic MLA format protocol for a simple 3 page essay (ummm...please endorse your paper, and stapling it's an awfully good idea too, don't cha think?). Advanced Composition! And I'm not even gonna get into the fantastically idiotic "interpretive content" I had to suffer through. (But wait. I can't resist. One student decided that if Dickinson were "smart," instead of "dumb and lonely," she would choose her "sintax" more carefully.) I'm talkin' about juniors and a few seniors here!

This is my 14th year in academe (7th fulltime/asst. prof of writing). I'm about ready to start-up that outside-of-academe writing career, as my health is beginning to press its demand that I leave these smug, doltish or just plain jaw-dropping stupid students behind. I'm tired of muttering "stoops," (my current code for "stupid") under my breath. I'm sick of announcing "Your lack of planning isn't my emergency" when some half-wit with the dullest of eyes has the nerve to come up to my desk before class (or more accurately forestalling the classes' normal start time...how annoying and rude ) and ask in a shallow, dip-shitty monotone, "did I miss anything?" This, after blowing off class for a week! Miss? I'd like to give him sumpthin to remember! I'm tired of getting sick at the beginning of each semester, because the wisdom that is my body is trying to tell me to get the fuck out!

Do you ever wonder how those 30+ years 'o service year after year tenure folks do it? Sometimes I wonder...

Why can't I be one of those profs who just seems to float though it all, stress-free? (My guess is that either they never cared about teaching so, for them, no harm no foul, a weird intersubjective relationship with students, an enviable clinical distance...the acccomplishment of a blissful detachment semester after semester...or perhaps they take really good drugs. If the latter, gimme some!

Sorry for the incoherency factor/ranty flavor of the above. Thanks beyond the typical thanks for your excellent site--I've found therapy-vicarious! You've inspired me to rant a bit more honestly about the grotesque that is teaching on my own bloggy-doo. Yippee! Anna

OH NO! Sounds extremely frustrating.

5 mths! hmmm...why DID you say yes? She must have caught you in a weak moment..I'd say good luck with this but how 'bout, "hope it ends soon." :)

Oh, that sucks! I hope you can manage to extract yourself from this quagmire!

jwb

Really, wouldn't academic life be so much easier if all we ever had to do was show up and look cute?
Congrats!

Congrats!

Hooray! Now celebrate.

Oh, it always feels so good to get something like that done. Good for you.

Woo hoo! Good for you!!

congratulations!

That's wonderful! Congratulations... and enjoy the schmoozing!

p.s. I went ahead and answered your lovely question -- thank you!!

Congrats on your completed revision, your new study and getting to chair the big wigs! :) You have ferrets??? Tres cool! Oh I followed your link from the barefoot one. You know who I'm talking about. :) Cheers!

Hi, I'm Melissa and I'm a LURKERholic on your site, but today I'm coming out of the closet to spread some honey your way! Come share in this special De-Lurking Day and do some of your own.

Congrats!!

Assuming you're a female prof...

that sounds worse than my last day off - I had appointments at both dentist and OB/GYN.

I wouldn't read 47 conference submissions if you paid me. I wrote a few back in grad school. No way, no day.

You have my pity.

(*)>

Holy crap!!! 47?!?! If it were me, I'd be tempted to ask her if I could delegate some (like 40 or more) to colleagues elsewhere and some doctoral students. Is this possible?

Well, it came with a letter saying how many papers there were in total and how there were only 6 of us reviewing (6??!!) and a "I know it's a lot but thanks so much" sentiment. Still, I'm pissed.

Skimming is what all the cool kids do. No way would I sit there and read all 47. Especially when you have all the cute animals to cuddle!

Skimming sounds like a plan ...

Love your site's New Year look.

Oh please. She knows that you can't be expected to review 47 submissions, even if there are only 6 reviewers. Who's fault is it for only finding 6 reviewers? Not yours! Either delegate, or skim, skim, skim!

I did a little over half of that in one evening -- 47? Wow. That's a huge favour you're doing.

Skim. Follow any standards they give you and go with your gut after you've read through the pile. It should soon be apparent (I hope). If not, consult my handy rules for conference submissions:

http://ancarett.com/index.php?p=916

47? that's insane!

I'm with everyone else on this. Skim. Skim. Skim. I'd just skim and toss them into three piles: terrific, okay, and no. Then give each pile a number between 0 and 100.

Your field definitely does things differently than does mine. We work program committees this way: there are 5 to 6 of us, we all look at all the proposals, and we score the proposals on a 4 point basis. This way we can all skim them in the first round. When the scores come back, one group will clearly stand out as in, another group as out, and a third group will be middling. We then read those particular proposals with more care.

This process works quite well. I've served on 4 or 5 committees, where we have evaluated anywhere between 40 and 100 proposals each time. Rarely does the initial evaluation take more than 2 or 3 minutes per paper. 300 minutes is still a lot of time, of course, but it is something that you can get done in a single day.

The 100 point scale, that just sounds icky. I'd definitely want to get rid of that!

jwb

Jimbo,
The 1 to 4 idea sounds interesting. In our field, it really depends of the committee/division chair, that is, each does it a bit differently but I've seen the 100 point scale often. Usually, each paper goes out to 3 reviewers and then depending on the number of slots and such the division chair decides which papers to program based on our reviews (the obvious ones--those that get 3 'yes' votes--automatically get programmed and then the 0 to 100 score comes into play for the rest).

I'm 2/3 of the way finished with the pile right now so am feeling better about it. I took everyone's advice and skimmed. :-)

i can totally understand how you feel. you're probably about as mad and irritated as i felt when i wasn't getting the college education i paid for. when i was in college, i had professors that would read off of powerpoint slides for the entire semester, that would NEVER grade ANYTHING (including tests), and that had completely unrealistic expectations of us students. in fact, i once had a professor stop in the middle of lecture and yell as the class because the class was (very obviously) not paying attention. he tried to guilt trip us by saying, "how would you feel if you spent time preparing a lecture only to be ignored?" i wanted to answer, "how would you feel if you were paying thousands of dollars a year to have a person with a PHD read you powerpoint slides?!"

i really wish i had had some professors that cared about their job as much as you care about yours.

Wow. Who doesn't bring a PENCIL to an EXAM? Okay, probably me, because I can forget anything, but I would have asked someone else first, instead of expecting the prof to supply it me.

When someone in one of my intro classes kept fighting about the basics of the class, the prof eventually just asked "How long have you been studying this?" One week. "Well, I've been working on it for 25 years. When you've written a dissertation on it and worked on it that long, we'll talk."

And had it been appropriate, a lot of people would have given her a standing ovation.

I'm sorry the classes were so terrible.

You know, I have borrowed pens from students once or twice when I arrived without them. But when I have to do that, I acknowledge that it is lame. The problem is not students making mistakes; the problem is them being rude about it. As you say, we don't work for them; we work for the institution. Or, as I was thinking irritably to myself earlier today, education is not a business, nor is it a service. It is education. It is its own thing. And sometimes it feels like even the institution itself forgets that, and then we get stuck with these shitty attitudes and it fucking sucks.

No backlash from me! I completely sympathize. What bites the most is that you're not just showing up to do a job: you're the one putting heart and soul into this, and as geeky pointed out above, when students should be humbled with gratitude to have gotten someone as good as you - they don't even bring a pencil.

My only hope is this: that once in a while you just get a crappy group, and once in a longer while some of those crappy groups coincide, and once in eleven years you get a whole crappy semester. But it's not a sign that things are getting that bad overall. Next semester, the cosmic balance will be restored, and you'll get three extra helpings of the dream students. :)

Marla takes your class, too?

When I'm lucky, my classes like that will have a student who has been in the service. He'll usually explain to the whiners that this is nothing compared to the Army/Marines/etc.

Good luck making it to the end!

I read all of that, and I have to say...if ANYONE has the fucking NERVE to get pissy with YOU for the feelings you have conveyed with this post, well, than I would be mighty happy to put a boot in their ass to snap them back into reality mode.

I'm one of those people that would KILL to just BE ABLE to attend just ONE class right now, & to be able to get a degree before I turn 40 (which is a mere 5 years away, and at the rate that I'm going, it'll be more like 50...sigh...). yes, I made some poor choices when I was younger & I skipped out on pursuing an education when most people do (after high school/early to mid-twenties), but I KNEW that back then, all I would be doing was wasting my own, and everyone else's time and money....

I'm sorry Cheeky...I hear your frustrations & I sympathize for you, I would be frustrated & pissed too. I wish I could wave my boot around & give these twits a reality check (a.k.a. kick in the pants)....they SO do not know how lucky they are to even HAVE this opportunity...ungrateful steaming piles o' ...oh...oops, my jealous side is rearing it's ugly head again.

hang in there...

No, Cheeky, it's ok. You know we all feel like this. Actually, I like my class a lot this semester, though there are always a few bad eggs. But last year was a total disaster--they didn't like me, thought I was inexperienced, didn't want to cut me slack--and I dreaded every day of class. I know that's not why your class is upsetting you, but you said yourself that previous years have been much better. So hopefully this year is just a bunch of those bad eggs. Hopefully next semester will be great again, and you'll remember why you like teaching. Sure, there's always going to be headaches, but sometimes there are the good discussions and the good reviews (boy am I hoping for those this year! Plus an entry with a jalapeno on ratemyprofessor...)

So bitch all you want--it's better to get it out than to keep it in.

Oh. My. Gosh. You have read my mind. Your feelings echo mine so closely it's spooky. I am an adjunct at a small liberal arts college, and I have already told the director of the department that I won't be available next semester. I've taught for several years, and the students seem to get progressively worse. I can't believe how non-participatory my students are--and how indignant they get when their grades reflect their apathetic efforts. Thank you for saying it better than I ever could.

I'm pretty new to dealing with students as The Professor rather than The TA, and I've been shocked by what they'll try to get away with and how little they seem to think they should have to do. Disappointing.

I'm so sorry to hear this. It just makes life miserable when you hate going to class - and I so understand, and would never give you grief about it. Sure, sometimes profs are snotty and complain about student irresponsibility without really considering what might be going on with the students, but that's not what's going on here. Sometimes students are little shits. And if you get enough students with the wrong attitude, it poisons a whole class. And some institutions really breed cultures that support this kind of attitude. And that just sucks.

Like everyone else, I'm hoping that this is an isolated convergence of the stars or something and that next semester goes much better.

And good for you for what you said to Pencilless! Someone needs to say such things. Do they imagine that they can show up to work one day and say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't bring a pencil"?!?!?

Consider it a public service that you're doing: every student that you effectively call on their bullshit is another student who might (optimistically, think optimistically) think twice about doing it again. After all, we only get four years to turn some of these animals into human beings. . . .

Kids these days... I swear. Hang in there Cheeky.

You should have very lightly stabbed her in the shoulder with the pencil. Not hard enough to do any damage, but just enough so that she would feel it every time she raised her arm to write something.

Cheeky, I am a student and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm a grad student now but I took a class this quarter that was open to undergrads and grad students. The undergrads killed me! Totally unprepared, no assignment when it was due, pissy attitudes...it was awful and I was just fellow student! Plus, one idiot tried to explain away not having his assignment completed by saying his computer caught fire. How often does that happen? I mean really? I am going on 10 years of computer use and I have never had mine burst into flames!

*Hugs* I hope you get a better group next year. Maybe you should switch to teaching grads. I think we're of a higher quality grade :)

Oh and the blogs and virtual technology ideas are AWESOME! I wish I had assignments like those.

Not to depress you even further, but you know what the scariest part is?

Many of these folks vote. For President.

You've given me an idea, though. I'm going to start circulating a petition for a new initiative (I can do that in California). In the interest of saving money, I'm going to suggest that they stop putting markers in the voting booths — and instead require people to bring their own. Maybe we can stop some of them suckers from voting.

On another note, one day I'm hoping to combine the practice of law with a little adjunct teaching. I've taught before (but only trade-school type stuff as a certified trainer) and loved it. I've also tutored and enjoyed that immensely.

But I never cease to be amazed at fellow students who sit like bumps on logs having failed, as you've already noted, to even look at the assignment. And then they wonder why they get poor scores. (And where I go to school — no curve.)

At the same time, I'm privately pleased. Most people graduating from my school remain in the area to practice law. And they'll be practicing against me. ;)

I hear you, loud and clear. In fact, just last night I posted on my blog about Why I Left, some of which is related to teaching/students. You are not alone in your feelings, not in the least.

I always bring extra pencils and scantrons, and sell them at highly inflated prices for the losers than can't remember that although they've taken eighty seven tests in X course already, scantrons and pencils are necessary. idiots.

I think this point -- "I do not work for you, I work for the university" -- is something that many students do not realize. I think they think we teach and that is it (even if we did teach full-time, we still wouldn't work FOR THEM, though). Good call on that one.

This semester I have not had obnoxious students... only semi-obnoxious moments with a few students. I don't know if it's that I got lucky this semester (heh heh... I got lucky! -- that's kind of a funny phrase) or what.

Also, I sort of expect students to do things that appear lame to me. (These things feel reasonable to them, such as asking for a pencil, but I agree that it's obnoxious and they should have taken care of this themselves by asking a peer, etc.) I'm actually very surprised and pleased when they are NOT lame. It's too bad that what should be normal and commonplace behavior (showing up on time, following directions, etc.) becomes exciting to me.

I say, vent away. Your situation sounds extremely frustrating. I would be MOST PISSED about students not accessing the readings. Are you thinking about resorting to reading quizzes next time or something?

i think the quality of students really has dipped lately. i don't teach, but i'm considering that for the future, and i look at the students who, as you say want a degree and not an education, and i get really ticked off.

however, this eval i just did might make your day: "topics were not covered in completely in class meaning we had to read the book!" seriously, the evals i've done this morning, they all want to be spoonfed. so many say "we were confused. instructor not clear, etc" and i'd love to ask them how many actually asked questions in class or saw the professor during office hours. i bet not many.

I've always been about efficiency and always brought three times as many blue books, pencils and erasers than a normal person requires to an exam. There used to be a time when people would be embarrassed to show up for a test so blatantly unprepared. Now? Not so much, I guess.

Don't worry...someday that student will walk into a meeting with me without the documents I emailed him yesterday and asked him to review...and I'll ask him to leave and come back when he's prepared. I've done it before...would love to do it again. :) Mwa ha ha...

Hee hee -- I am soooo supposed to be grading. But I had this conversation in class yesterday from the student who just radiates hate for having to be in school (I think it's part of his being able to access his trust fund) -- "so some of these IDs I don't recognise and couldn't find in the book ..." "Like which?" "um .. this Santiago de whatever." "Santiago de Compostela? You know, I'm pretty sure I did mention it in class -- in fact, I think I pointed out where it was on the map?" (Amused, nods from several students who actually come every day and ALSO pay attention) "Perhaps you should get together with some of the other people and ask them for notes."

Next?

ADM: Great reply. I've said something similar (after stating something 3 times and then having a student ask for the info...again) -- "Can anyone who was paying attention answer this question? I get tired of repeating myself." Snotty, probably, but sometimes it's the only thing that gets the point across.

I think "Mommy and Daddy" are much to blame for the attitudes of students. My husband and I had to WORK for our college education. We didn't have Mommy and Daddy pay for us a college education and a shiny new car and a brand new condo and cable tv and whatever the fuck else we "required" to help us get through school. We lived like friggin' refugees. We both get so pissed when we see those students who are given the world by their parents. They don't have a care in the world because Mommy and Daddy will take care of them. Mommy and Daddy will pay for their screw-ups. What a bunch of assholes!

Well, my parents paid my way all through college, and I NEVER pulled any crap like this.

It isn't the paying for college that's the problem, it's the coddling that began in the cradle.

Oh my God - Cheeky, I'm sooooo with you. I'm so completely sick and exausted of dealing with the attitudes. I've been doing this for 8 years - and I see the change in students. It sucks. This semester I've been trying to attribute it to my illness - but I think you're right - it's the students.... argh! I'm just hoping to find a way to deal

I have had the exact same request. I had a little less decorum than you, however, in dealing with it.

Just about every semester, I also get some lame-ass student who uses a PEN on his/her scantron sheet. My answer is always the same: "Even if you've never used one before, there's a picture of a goddamn pencil on the scantron! If you can even figure out symbols, you have no right to be in school."

[cringe] Sounds like you just got a bad batch this go-round. Hang in there! We need more profs like you!

That's classic. As a student, I do use RMP.com to filter through crappy profs and find the good ones, but it's exactly those frowny-face type comments that work the opposite on me -- I'd totally take your course based on the snippet you posted! As you can imagine, I screw up the averages when I then post smiley-face reviews of the same profs, after the term, with comments like "very hard, but very fair, smiley face". :)

You expect them to do the assigned readings for class? You're lucky they haven't staged a coup yet. ;)

Sadly, I'm yet to appear on "Rate My Professors." I'm anxiously awaiting my first frowny-face.

Oh, dahling, didn't they tell you? One buys grades these days. Paying tuition is entitlement to at least a B. Puh-lease.

I love to trawl through RMP.com for my own rankings and those of my colleagues (especially the ones who pride themselves on being "in touch" with the students when the comments suggest otherwise). A common complaint in my own rankings is how I'm too tough of a marker. So, I was touched to see this comment: "Contrary to some of the comments here, she is not impossibly hard."

Wusses. What's going to happen when they get out into the real word and have to produce? Navigate to ratemyboss.com and say "Expects me to come to work at 8. Makes lousy coffee. Asked for report three times before I told him to shove it."